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Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 11:43:43 49558,
You have got to be about the most superficial commentator on con-langues since 
the idiotic B. Gilson.   
Did I miss the one where you said which conlang you're fluent in and read at 
least three times a week and can read new books in every week of even one year 
or listen to radio shows in every week?   New radio shows?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 11:55:13 49558,
New radio shows?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 11:55:14 49558,
Yeah, I'm surprised you don't know that there are radio shows put out in 
Esperanto every week.  I thought you were supposed to be an expert.
And, which of the conlangs are you fluent in?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 11:55:16 49558,
I was born in 1998 so I don't know what a radio is sorry

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 11:55:18 49558,
I suppose you think that's cute.  What it makes you is a fraud.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 11:55:19 49558,
yeah but I'm a cute fraud though right?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 11:55:21 49558,
I assume that anyone who is reading this should assume since you have not 
mentioned which one you actually can speak that the answer is you don't speak 
any of them .  
Let me guess, you can speak English and maybe a little, tiny bit of a second 
language but you couldn't actually live in what you know of it.  Typical.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 11:55:23 49558,
sina sona ike! mi ken toki kepeken toki pona. taso, ona li toki lili. jan ale 
li ken kama sona toki kepeken ona kepeken tenpo lili! tenpo pini la mi toki ala 
e ona tan ni. ni li ale.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 11:55:24 49558,
toki pono or whatever it is?   Give me a break.   Show me the bibliography.  
Show me the speaking language community, show me the technical literature 
written or translated into it, show me the literature from many countries 
translated into it.    I wonder, since its inspiration is supposed to be Taoism 
if they've translated any of the literature of Taoism into it.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 11:55:26 49558,
toki pona is a game that is a little above pig-Latin and way below Ido.  About 
its only virtue is that it lacks the nationalistic hegemony of Basic English.   
I'd love to see someone try to translate a 4th grade level chapter book into 
it.  Or try to.  Why don't you wow us by translating The Little Engine That 
Could or .... no.  An even better demonstration.   How about you translate 
Gerda Malaperis into it.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 11:55:28 49558,

Flaming Obsidian
Sun May  4 12:06:23 49558,
I can translate the entirety of Moby Dick, if you want to challenge me. Also, 
Toki Pona has a whole community, unlike slowly dying Ido.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:25 49558,
I'm not an idist, I'm an Esperantist, a language which has the largest 
"conglang" community in history.   I bet you couldn't translate Moby Dick into 
toki pona and have anyone who hadn't read the original tell you what was going 
on in most of it. I'll bet your translation would be controversial.   The 
language is radically vague except when talking about the simplest things.  It 
wasn't designed to talk about complicated things, its inventor said as much.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 12:06:27 49558,
This snippet is the entirety of the lackluster "Literature" section of 
Wikipedia's article on TP:  "Lang has published proverbs, some poetry, and a 
basic phrase book in Toki Pona."  Actually, there is a little bit more than 
that, but not much more.  Perhaps the most significant work I can find is a 
translation of The Little Prince 
(  The translation however is 
not very faithful, but rather is heavily abridged.  When you translate it back 
to English (to the extent that is even possible) and compare it to the 
original, it sounds like what you'd say if you were trying to explain the story 
to a 2- or 3-year-old child.  All the little details melt away like snowflakes 
falling into a campfire.  There is no alternative; TP lacks the necessary 
lexicon and syntax to faithfully convey the full story.  It is essentially 
glorified baby talk, and I doubt the original author would have been very 
pleased with this translation.
Despite all that, Flaming Obsidian, I do challenge you to translate the 
entirety of Moby Dick into TP.  I suspect it would be a good learning 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:28 49558,
I just looked at an article, I notice that it says the inventor of t.p. 
translated the Tao te Ching INTO ESPERANTO.  
I like how she purposely limited the number of words for numbers so it wouldn't 
be easy to talk about "big numbers" in the language.  Numbers like 5 and 
sixteen, apparently.  
I've got nothing against people playing in the language but to pretend it's a 
real language with even an unsophisticated range of usefulness is simply not 
true.  Seems to me if they're going to be true to the inventors intention they 
can't really make it so.   Zamenhof invented Esperanto to do that and he built 
in means of extending a fairly small vocabulary into a far larger number of 
usable words. Claude Piron was able to write some fairly technical and 
sophisticated books as well as crime novels and even beginner books like Gerda 
Malaperis that, by the end of the book, feel quite normal. 
I really meant it when I said that though I studied French and German for years 
and use them practically every day, Esperanto is the only secondary language 
that I can use with practically the same fluency and feel of fluency that I do 
my native English.  And I don't speak it all that often. compared to French.

Flaming Obsidian
Sun May  4 12:06:30 49558,
Simplicity does not mean stupidity. All of your points rely on the claim that 
simple things are for idiots. I know it may be difficult to translate things 
into Toki Pona, but that does not mean it is a dumb language. You could easily 
translate many things into V0tgil, but that does not make it a good language.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:32 49558,
A language of 120 words, designed by its inventor to not be able to express 
complex ideas or numbers bigger than -  what was it in the official vocabulary, 
two? - cannot express complex thoughts in a clear manner.  It would be like 
trying to translate a modern novel into an ancient language in which modern 
ideas and things had no vocabulary.  Only without having the freedom to invent 
neologisms as they did in Finland when they tried to do their Latin news 
reports.  They were popular but they had to invent a lot of words to pull it 
I will bet if you came up with a toki pona translation of Gerda Malaperis by 
Claude Piron most of the users of t.p. wouldn't understand what the story was 
about or what was happening during most of it.  Go on, prove me wrong. There 
must be an English translation of it somewhere.

Flaming Obsidian
Sun May  4 12:06:33 49558,
Challenge accepted.

Flaming Obsidian
Sun May  4 12:06:35 49558,
Here's chapter 1 of Gerda Malaperis. It only took me a few minutes to write it.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:37 49558,
Let's see you translate the last chapter of it.  The first chapter is the 
simplest one.  How about the chapter where Linda is trying to figure out what 
she's going to do when the blond guy leaves.  
I'd like some other toki pona user who didn't know the story prove they 
understood it on a cold reading.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:38 49558,
I retranslated your translation and it's hardly a clear translation of what the 
text says.  
Am I right, you describe the blond young man as being pale yellow? Really?

Flaming Obsidian
Sun May  4 12:06:40 49558,
No, pi linja jelo translates as "having yellow hair." Linja is a more informal 
term for hair, the more formal term being linja lawa. jelo walo is pale yellow. 
This must be a form of pigeon chess, to translate a text for somebody who does 
not know the language I am translating into.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:42 49558,
I looked at t.p. and learned to read it once, though there wasn't much of 
anything interesting to read in it. It didn't take long.  I am not impressed 
with the translation and I do doubt that if someone was unfamiliar with the 
story if they would really understand what is supposed to be going on in it. It 
would be an interesting test to make.  I wonder what the inventor of t.p. would 
have to say about it. 
As the story is in Esperanto, using pretty much exclusively a very small 
vocabulary, as I recall all of them standard, "official" roots and grammatical 
forms, it's obvious that E-o can do that.

Sun May  4 12:06:44 49558,
"Haha you don't know any conlangs"
"That one doesn't count"

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:46 49558,
A conlang of 120 words, it has three numbers "one, two and many" because its 
author didn't want the language to have the ability to express "big numbers" 
and doesn't like the introduction of the word for "hand" to represent the huge 
number five.  
toki pona isn't so much a language as it is a game.  It takes the absurdities 
that sprang from Basic English with its 850 words and magnifies them 
enormously.  If you had read Gerda Malaperis, with its own radically reduced 
vocabulary, and read the "translation" of the first chapter into toki pona 
linked to above, you would see that it isn't a language in any way.  Some 
people call it a "pidgen" but it's not even that.  
Anyone who thinks they can judge a real constructed language on the basis of 
toki pona is probably too ignorant to have an important idea on the topic. 
So, you speak toki pona?  I have a feeling the place it got the best workout 
was at the Esperanto Youth group's workshop on it at the International Congress 
a while back.  I don't know if they taped it but it would be interesting to see 
how those conlangers who know an actual conlang did with it.

Sun May  4 12:06:47 49558,

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:49 49558,
So you don't speak toki pona.  Why am I surprised?

Sun May  4 12:06:51 49558,
I'm sorry but I'm just having trouble comprehending the sheer volume of haughty 
obstinance it must take to engage with a comment that only says "lol".

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:52 49558,
You should have put your period between "comprehending" and "the" and left 
everything after the period out.

Sun May  4 12:06:54 49558,
Is this your job, to do this?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:55 49558,
You've finally said something amusing.  The idea that someone gets paid to 
promote a conlang or criticize one is mildly amusing.  As is the idea that 
refuting you is work.

Sun May  4 12:06:57 49558,
I mean you've written some pretty lengthy comments on here, I was wondering if 
you had some reason for doing this or just really value your time so little 
that you consider it a priority to refute even the most asinine response to 
your youtube comment thread where you make fun of someone for not being a 
die-hard esperantist.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:06:59 49558,
I think fast and type fast.  I write several thousand words most day.  This is 
child's play. 
I haven't made fun of anyone for not being a "die-hard Esperantist" I haven't 
made fun of anyone for not being an Esperantist.  The only non-Esperantists I 
have anything against are those who say untrue things about the language as a 
language and a real phenomenon in the world. 
My criticism of toki pona was with the idea that it was a language instead of a 
game.  Try writing the English language using 120 words even if you use all of 
their grammatical inflections within that.  The results won't be communication 
on any but the vaguest of levels.  I have no problem with people playing with 
toki pona if they want to but to claim you could translate Moby Dick or even 
Gerda Malaperis into it is absurd.   By the way, I respect toki pona enough to 
not capitalize it.  I might think Ms. Lang is kind of eccentric but I don't 
have anything against her or her project, such as it is instead of such as it 

Sun May  4 12:07:00 49558,
Well I'm glad to see you've found something productive to do with that big head 
of yours.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 12:07:02 49558,
"I respect toki pona enough to not capitalize it",204,203,

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:07:03 49558,
The instructions I found online said that it never used upper case letters, did 
that change or was the thing I learned to "read" it from wrong?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:07:05 49558,
Hey,  if you're going to get snarky I'm going to return it with attitude. I can 
also kick it around if necessary.

Sun May  4 12:07:07 49558,
Well, let's see it then. Go on and have a go at me.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:07:09 49558,
Oh, I thought I was already being too edgy for you.  Or was it just too long?

Sun May  4 12:07:11 49558,
No, actually.

Luis Manuel Ontiveros
Sun May  4 12:07:13 49558,
+Conlang Critic thank you for pinning this absurd thread. You gained one more 
subscriber ;)

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:07:14 49558,
sethraptor thank you for giving me something entertaining to read (that is to 
say, i'm on your side here, i wish english had affect suffixes)

Sun May  4 12:07:44 49558,
Yeah seriously that would be so useful on internet.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:07:46 49558,
I'd have to see what it was, the active, using community it attracted, the ways 
it is USEFUL and the literature it produced.   One person doesn't determine if 
one conlang is better than another, a community that adopts and uses it does.  
That is if it isn't something ridiculously impractical such as Loglan or Toki 
The history of Esperanto "improvements" is a long one but the only ones that 
have been successful are minor points which have changed in the century + of 
its use by a community of users.  The basic structure of the language has, 
already, passed the test of time in users whose native languages have been from 
many different families of languages around the world.  Several of the best 
writers in Esperanto grew up speaking such non-Indo-European languages as 
Japanese and Hungarian.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 12:07:48 49558,
Loglan is often presented as a "logical language", but actually it was a 
homebrew project putatively designed to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.  That 
needs to be fully appreciated if you wish to understand why the language was 
designed the way it was.  Starting in 1955, the creator seems to have been 
working mostly on his own, with minimal input from others, and never 
incorporated the various advances in transformational grammar, formal 
semantics, case role theory, etc that appeared in the 1970s and 1980s.  Along 
the way, innumerable kludges, patches and just plain bizarre design decisions 
found their way into the language  over the time of several decades.  Suffice 
to say that Loglan and Lojban should not be presented as IALs. However, just as 
with Toki Pona,some enthusiasts did not get the memo that the language was NOT 
designed to be an IAL.  I will say, however, that a properly reformed loglanoid 
language could probably be used as an auxlang.  Such a language might be useful 
in clearing up ambiguities that might arise between people of different 
cultural backgrounds in conversation, arguably helping to avoid 
misunderstandings.  Whether a properly reformed loglanoid would ever attract a 
significant following and a movement is, of course, an entirely different 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:07:51 49558,
Last time I looked one of the inventors of Loglan bragged that two people had 
actually sustained conversation in it for 45 minutes.  I believe by that time 
in the history of Esperanto there had actually been international congresses 
conducted entirely in the language with participants from many different 
countries.   Let me know when the world-wide community of those who could 
actually get along for an hour in the language reaches three figures.

Sun May  4 12:07:53 49558,
I'm no expert, but it seems to me like if you judge every "conglang" against 
the virtues of Esperanto, then of course Esperanto is going to come out on top 
since it literally is Esperanto. Of course a minimalistic spiritually minded 
experimental language isn't going to be tremendously successful as an 
international auxiliary, especially compared to THE "definitive" auxlang that 
is gloriously prolific Esperanto. I would even venture to say that Esperanto's 
main virtues are it's widespread use and recognition which may or may not have 
to do with it's merits as an auxlang. Whether these goals themselves are worth 
pursuing is another matter entirely, and to be honest, mostly irrelevant.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 12:07:56 49558,
Anthony McCarthy, perhaps you aren't aware of some the current usage in Lojban 
(Loglan's successor language).  Currently there is a good amount of 
conversation occurring in Lojban, both in IRC and voice chat.  There are 
translations and there is also some original musical output on Youtube and 
Vimeo if you're curious.  I am not trying to compare Lojban to Esperanto.  I'm 
just trying to make you aware of things.  If you have read my last comment, you 
know that my view is that Lojban is need of radical reform, and that it's not 
suitable as an IAL candidate, at least not in its current state.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:07:59 49558,
I have read about Lojban, it is essentially the same language with some 
differences to get past the copyright on it, as I recall.  
If it isn't as simple to learn as Esperanto has proven to be over decades, I 
doubt it has much of a chance to become practical or widely used.  Simplicity 
of learning mixed with having enough established community, literature, etc. to 
make it worth learning is essential to it becoming more than a hobby.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 12:08:01 49558,
Natural languages get pretty complicated and are still used, so I don't think 
the degree of simplicity of Esperanto is a necessity for learning.  Simplicity 
is not the end-all that trumps all other considerations, but is one goal that 
has to be balanced with other goals, such as versatility and the possibility of 
expressing precise, nuanced thoughts.  Esperanto and Lojban don't have the same 
goals, so again, at the risk of repeating myself, it's not really apt to 
compare Esperanto and Lojban directly.  Lojban was designed for purposes that 
are separate from Esperanto's IAL idealism.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:08:02 49558,
A second language isn't learned under the same conditions under which a mother 
tongue is, learned from birth as the first means of communication,  during all 
of the waking hours a child experiences.  A conlang would be learned in a way 
more like a second language learned in school would be.  Language instructions 
in schools are notorious for their not producing speaking ability and, usually, 
more than slight reading skills.  
I'm skeptical about the linguistic theory that Loglan was formed to 
demonstrate, I've got no problem with people playing with it but it's not going 
to be widely used because it is too different from most or any other language.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 12:08:04 49558,
Anthony, any second language, if it's going to be learned at all, is going to 
be learned only by the minority of people who are motivated to learn it.  
Esperanto is no exception.  No matter how simple a language is (assuming it's 
fully functional and not a toy like Toki Pona), learning still requires 
significant practice and memorization.  It takes commitment.
In the case of Lojban, Lojban is learned by the sort of people who want to 
learn Lojban and absolutely no one else.  I have been studying the language for 
a while, though I am not fluent. I share your skepticism of Sapir-Whorf, 
assuming you are referring to that, but I do think that Lojban is worthwhile 
for the purpose of bringing preconceptions to consciousness and encouraging 
clear and precise thinking.  As a I said earlier, the language could stand a 
serious reformation -- I agree with you that it should be made simpler in order 
to learn and use.  I agree it's more complex than it needs to be, but that's 
the way it is for now.

Sun May  4 12:08:06 49558,
mostly he knows how to be evasive and a pedant.

Sun May  4 12:08:08 49558,
I see anthony as the kind of guy who sees himself as some kind of big 
intellectual, but the only way he has to express his expert thesaurus reading 
skills is on youtube, where he picks fights by way of hyperbole.
Mike is all about the facts, and argues with information. He doesn't worry so 
much about how the debate will turn out in the end because he's just in it for 
the pursuit of truth. 
I think what this comment thread really means is that argument for the sake of 
argument is futile, and by injecting the thread with personal emotional 
investment, Anthony has set himself up from the start to have accomplished 
nothing by the end of this treacherous journey.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:08:10 49558,
Oh, for crying out loud.  I've been reading and participating in conlang 
discussions for decades.  I know what I'm talking about, if that's pedantic, 
I'm not ashamed of it.  I do, actually, USE one and have looked at several of 
them in depth.   Mordu min.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:08:13 49558,
Anthony McCarthy decades? christ you must be boring

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:08:15 49558,
As I say to my students, boredom is a sign of stupidity.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:08:17 49558,
Anthony McCarthy a) you dont say that, you just wanted to flaunt the fact youre 
a teacher as though thatd equate to some intellectual authority
b) so youre never bored? when youre grading your students' tests you sit at 
your desk fucking ecstatic, having the time of your life? if not then ur an 
idiot according to urself
c) if i a) had students and b) told them that every single person named anthony 
is a 45 year old mine who was recently divorced with one rebellious teenager 
daughter who wears shorts and has white socks with one red and one blue stripe 
with a beer belly who sits at his desk looking down at his monitor with his 
glasses low down on his nose, it wouldnt make it true

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:08:19 49558,
Well, you are just about entirely wrong in all your speculations. 
If you think conlangs are booorrrring and you come here to talk about them you 
can't be too bright.  It's such a novel concept to so many of you guys, knowing 
what you're talking about.

Sun May  4 12:08:21 49558,
I used to think someone who is decades old would be above fighting with <2 
decade olds on youtube comments but I guess you can never know anything these 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:08:23 49558,
Oh, is that what you think.  Or is that what you just said.  I can assure you, 
I'm quite able to kick it around with you young'uns.  Especially if you don't 
bother to know what you're talking about, which is what surprised me.

Sun May  4 12:19:47 49558,
Well you see Anthony I actually can't know what I'm talking about, because it 
all depends on the country, region, and social context. Because of this fact, 
knowledge is unknowable to any single human.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:19:49 49558,
Anthony McCarthy show me exactly where i said conlangs are borings, why the 
fuck would i be here if i didnt like conlangs?

Luis Manuel Ontiveros
Sun May  4 12:19:51 49558,
Stop feeding the troll... (unless this is all becoming ironic, which is hard to 
tell :v)

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:19:52 49558,
As the other guys don't seem to know anything about the topic, it's ironic that 
you'd call someone who does a troll.  
I guess it's always a rule of comment tread commenting, that ignorance rules 
because those are the people who troll comment threads.  How's that for irony?

Sun May  4 12:19:54 49558,
How is that for irony, Anthony? Care to elaborate?

Luis Manuel Ontiveros
Sun May  4 12:19:55 49558,
You know, I think I'm actually sort of starting to like your idiotic comments 
again :) keep 'em coming!

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:19:57 49558,
Because a "troll" was originally a person who didn't address the issues at 
hand.  Now it apparently means someone who knows enough to be able to do that 
as opposed to people who don't and so can't.

Sun May  4 12:19:58 49558,
Well I'm glad there's at least one person here with the knowledge to maintain 
some level of academic excellence for this comment thread at youtube dot com

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:00 49558,
"SAD!""SAD!""SAD!"  Did you learn English from reading Donald Trump tweets?  
Toki pona doesn't even have an official word for a number other than one, two 
and "many", it was designed to only be able to express the most minimal of 
information and, as the "translation" of even the first, most vocabulary 
limited chapter of Gerda Malaperis shows, it can't even really do that.  It 
doesn't have user community, it has a gamer community.  Lojban has a tiny 
number of people able to use it and it's so difficult and artificial that it is 
destined to never have more than a tiny user community.   Neither are a viable 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:01 49558,
Well, you would seem to have other habits in common with Donald Trump, not 
being able to understand when what you want to be true has been refuted, for 
one.   So, where is the rest of the Gerda Malaperis translation into Toki pona? 
 You don't even have to go to the last chapter which uses the full c. 500 root 
vocabulary of the book, that one where Linda is trying to decide what to do if 
the blonde guy gets up and leaves will make the point that, no, very little can 
be translated into Toki pona and have another TP user understand it.  I think 
it's something like the ninth section of the book, though I'd have to look.  
Obviously, you can say it in Esperanto since the book was written as a 
beginner's reader in that language, one which has been successfully used and 
understood by many thousands of Esperanto users and speakers.

Conlang Dude
Sun May  4 12:20:03 49558,
Anthony McCarthy if you want I'll translate that section if you find it. I've 
never read Gerda Malaperis, but then why would I? The only reason it's at all 
noteworthy is because it was written in a conlang, not a particularly good one 
at that. Anyway, give me a link to a section and I'll translate it. You can 
find some Toki Pona user to read it and let's see how close they are. Until 
then, I'm off to speak non-Esperanto languages with any merit whatsoever. Oh 
wait, it's redundant to say both "non-Esperanto" and "with any merit" because 
the two are mutually inclusive.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:04 49558,
The trick is translating it in a way so that a person who doesn't know the 
story, or the section translated, would understand what was going on in it.  I 
was familiar with the story and I am familiar with Toki pona and I would never 
have been able to figure out what was happening in the story.  Toki pona, with 
its radically tiny vocabulary cannot do what is done by Claude Piron in that 
book, give people an easy to learn language which will provide them with a 
vocabulary and grammar able to do what can be done in any natural language with 
the same level of precision and specificity.   If you want an easier challenge 
you could try to translate the texts and exercises of the Zagreb Method 
textbook - available all over the place, free, online,  with an even more 
reduced vocabulary.  I will bet you won't get far into it before the resources 
of Toki pona are proven to be unable to produce the same equivalent use of 
language that Esperanto does and has since the end of the 19th century.  I 
counted the vocabulary for the first lesson at about 40 words, or a third of 
the entire corpus of Toki pona, By the time you get to lesson 4, you already 
surpass the corpus of T.P. words for numbers and I'm sure in many other 
categories of vocabulary.  
I am sure you might give some vague sense of what is going on in the original, 
though not much that is very specific.  And according to the inventor of the 
language, that was her intention.  To only be able to talk about very simple 
things, not a full range of human experience.  It does no one any good to 
pretend you could possibly do that with 120 words. Plus or minus "unofficial" 
neologisms which, as it is the nature of neo-logisms, will start muddying the 
water as fast as you invent them to clear things up.  Anyone who has ever read 
novels in a second language will know that experience, especially when those 
words are ones you can't find in any but the most specialized dictionary of 
The history of Ido as opposed to Esperanto shows that once you start fiddling 
to "improve" a language, you'll more likely drive your reform into decadence.  
I can read Ido - it's really a dialect of Esperanto, more or less - but if I'm 
going to use a conlang I want one where people will understand what I'm saying 
instead of being confused by my "improvements" or "reforms" or neologisms.  I 
do agree with the late Claude Piron on the desireability of clarity over 
novelty.  I am certain you will never be able to translate his fine study La 
Bona Lingvo into TP.  
As I said, I have no problem with people wanting to play with Toki pona or 
Lojban or Ido but except for the ever fading project of Ido, there is no chance 
of them becoming a useful conlang for general communication.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:06 49558,
The word, itself, isn't old, it came up on Usernet in 1991 and I would call 
your attention, such as it is, to the first line from Merriam Websters:
Definition of conlang
:  an invented language intended for human communication that has planned and 
cohesive phonological, grammatical, and syntactical systems
"Intended for human communication" contains more than can be expresed in any 
120 +- word game.  If 120 words, why not 12?  Why not 2?  Yes No.  You could 
communicate something with just Yes and No but nothing clearly about something 
and no more information than affirmation or negation.  It's almost certain that 
more times than not one or both parties won't know what is being talked about 
or what is being affirmed or negated.  
Your statement about the example of Gerda Malaperis is a transparently 
dishonest dodge.  I proposed the test of Toki pona because it is a novella 
written very successfully, communicating quite clearly in a vocabulary of about 
500 word roots, many of which are grammatical affixes.  I would hazard the 
guess that any natural language which is used to communicate about life in the 
late 20th and early 21st century could come up with a translation of it which 
carries the full meaning of the story, probably most of it in fairly direct, 
literal translation due to the flexibility of sentence structure in Esperanto.  
I'm sure there could be a totally successful translation into many conlangs, 
but not Toki pona becaue it lacks sufficent vocabulary and clarity BY THE 
DESIGN OF THE WOMAN WHO INVENTED IT.  I'm sure there is probably a possibility 
of doing a translation into Lojban, though perhaps not as the language was 
constructed, suppoedly to make lies impossible to tell in it and lies play an 
important part in the story.  
You don't know what you're talking about.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:08 49558,
No, let's not leave it at that because any conlang that hopes or deserves to 
become an actual, used language exists to facilitate human communication, not 
to test a theory or a flaky idea that someone has.   There is a very good word 
for "language" projects that aren't for general communication but are some kind 
of embodiment of a theory (Loglan-Lojban) or philosophical position (T.P.) or a 
make believe, non-human community (Elvish, for example).   
I very seldom talk about conlangs or language in general while using Esperanto, 
I talk about all kinds of other things unrelated to language and language 
problems.  And I do it with people who can understand what I'm saying with the 
same level of precision that others can when I'm speaking my native language.  
I do, by the way, think it would be a very good test of the theory behind 
Loglan-Lojban to see if a story in which lies play an intrinsic part could be 
translated into it.  If those lies could be expressed in the language, they're 
obviously not a test of the theory.  If they can't, then could you lie to the 
Nazis about where their intended victims were hiding in it?  I wonder if anyone 
has ever tested the theory in that way.

Sun May  4 12:20:09 49558,
Listen guy, academic linguistics doesn't even all agree on what a language is 
for normal old natural languages, so it's awful big-headed of you to think that 
you can make the distinction between what is and isn't a "real" "conlang". This 
especially when your distinction is based on whether the "project" in question 
imitates natural language,

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:10 49558,
I would bet you that you could get a hundred academic linguists in a room and 
ask them if a language that limits itself to 120 words, has no word for numbers 
other than the ones TP is limited to, other radical limitations in essential 
words denoting specific things, actions and conditions of being, etc. and not 
one of them would say it was a real language, some might note what I have, that 
such a thing is a game.  
Any language that deserves that designation will enable those who use it to 
conduct all of their day-to-day communication within a reasonable range of 
specificity.   Any which don't aren't languages.  Those dead languages which 
left no or minimal remnants vocabulary  which are available to us today could 
not be considered a language that still exists, though they onced did.  In the 
same way any constructed "language" which limits itself to a vocabulary of a 
similar number of words is, essentially, in the same category by design.  
So, guy, why don't you go ask a bunch of "academic linguists" about that 
instead of just assuming they'd agree with you.   I'm not that impressed with 
academic linguistics, George Lakoff, for example,  I'd like to hear their 
reasoning if they agreed with you.  It might be fun.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:12 49558,

Sun May  4 12:20:13 49558,
You do realize that linguistics is what allows conlangs to exist and be 
discussed the way that they do and are

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:15 49558,
You said " academic linguistics doesn't even all agree on what a language is" 
which is a different thing than the study of language in general.  I doubt that 
until the 20th century that "academic linguistics" had much of anything to do 
with constructed languages and, as in the case of Glosa, Interglossa, Novial, 
especially Interlingua and a host of others, the association was hardly a great 
success.  Why don't you read the late Don Harlow's history of conlang projects 
before you go on.  Look up "Don Harlow How To Build A Language Esperanto Book". 
I think the reasons Esperanto worked were a. The fact that Zamenhof spoke 
several languages and read more, b. he had the failed example of Volapuk to 
learn from, c. he took a practical instead of a theoretical-academic approach 
to the problem.  His overall goal was communication among people who didn't 
speak a common, natural language, not to illustrate some academic theory or 

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:17 49558,
Anthony McCarthy i never realized pirahã isnt a real language

Conlang Dude
Sun May  4 12:20:18 49558,
Anthony McCarthy Similarly, Toki Pona achieves its goal. It's goal was to creat 
communication with a radically small vocabulary. It does this, it does it 
effectively, and most importantly it does it functionally. By design it isn't 
meant to go into specifics but specifics in a sentence don't limit 
communication by very much. Take the sentence "I glanced at the words littering 
the page, before flicking my eyes over to him." It's a relatively detailed 
sentence. Now saying "I looked at the words on the paper, then I looked at 
him," doesn't communicate anything different. Now you could translate "mi lukin 
e nimi pi lipu. mi lukin e ona" as either because they both mean the same. 
Being able to differentiate between "disgusting paste (ko jaki)" and "mud" 
isn't necessary because 99 times out of 100 it makes sense contextually. Your 
argument is that TP has no detail but details come from context.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:20 49558,
I'd like to see someone write a news report into the Trump-Russia scandal in 
T.P.   Or the firing of James Comey.  How would you say, "Donald Trump fired 
James Comey to try to stop the Russian election hacking investigation".    
You limit your vocabulary to 120 words, you'll find yourself severely limited 
in what you can talk about and what you can say about that.  You want to play 
with that, I'm not against that.  Pretending it can function as a full language 
is a fraud. 
I'm the one who pointed out, over and over again that Ms. Lang, in inventing 
T.P. said she didn't want it to be able to talk about complex topics. Which is 
incompatible with a full service language.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:22 49558,
Anthony McCarthy "Akesi utala jan pali e James Kome tawa pali tawa pakala ike e 
Lusia pali kulupu tawa lon li e ike tawa oko li sona"

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:25 49558,
The test would be to give that to someone telling them nothing about what it 
said and seeing if they could figure out what you were saying. Someone who 
didn't know anything about it.  I will bet it wouldn't work because, frankly, I 
can't figure out what you're referring to and I proposed the sentence.  Give a 
word for word translation back into English.

Conlang Dude
Sun May  4 12:20:27 49558,
Anthony McCarthy "jan Tono Tunpu li pakala e pali pi jan Kemu Komi la ona li 
ken pakala e lukin pi pakala pi lawa pi jan ale pi ma Lusa pi jan Kemu Komi."

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:28 49558,
I know that's a language which also doesn't have words for numbers beyond two, 
or is it three.  Other than that, perhaps like you, I don't really know much 
about it.  I do know that the people who use it would have to have more 
specific means of talking about complex things than Toki pona provides or 
they'd all have died out.  
I would like to know what they do when they interact or trade with other people 
with languages and more complex numbers systems.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:30 49558,
Anthony McCarthy So?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:31 49558,
So comparing a real language with Toki pona and claiming that TP can stand on 
an equal footing with it is absurd.  In the context of the lives of the people 
who speak Priaha, it's clear they don't require numbers larger than two.  Who 
in among the Toki pona community lives a life where they can get away with such 
If they tried to conduct business at the U.N. in Toki Pona I wonder what they'd 
be able to do.  I'm fairly confident that they'd be able to do most of not all 
of it in Esperanto, or Ido, for that matter.  Claude Piron was a UN 
interpreter, by the way.  
I really would like to see how many people who didn't know anything about the 
Trump-Putin scandal would know that's what your translation of that sentence 
was talking about because I don't think they would have any idea what you were 
getting at.  I have read books and articles about things I didn't know anything 
about in Esperanto and I am just about certain I knew what they were talking 
about and what they said about it.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:33 49558,
OK, so neither of you will do the exercise of giving a word for word 
retranslation back into English so people will know what you think means what 
the original says.  I took yours and put it in an online Toki pona to English 
translator - so no one can say I twisted it and this is what yours says
person Tono Tunpu is blunder such work belonging to people Kemu Komi it's said 
he is is able to blunder such see belonging to blunder belonging to head of 
people ale of land Lusa belonging to people Kemu Komi  
Here's what it gave back for Nathan Harding's
reptile conflict person activity such James Kome to activity in order to
blunder bad such Lusia work community to be in/at/on be there is such negative 
to eye is wisdom
If you want to give your own word for word retranslations, I would like to see 

Sun May  4 12:20:34 49558,
Toki Pona isn't meant to be used to conduct business at the U.N.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:36 49558,
Anthony McCarthy you cant do word for word translations because a) what is and 
is not a word isnt a concrete thing b) toki pona doesnt have words for "to 
fire", "to hack", "to elect", "to stop" or "russia"

Sun May  4 12:20:37 49558,
Of course a machine translation isn't going to work for Toki Pona, jesus lord 
All you've been doing this whole time is constructing a point of view 
specifically designed to shit on Toki Pona and glorify precious Esperanto, and 
repeating it over and over again without giving any justification or reason why 
any of us should give a rat's ass what you think a "real" conlang is. To be 
entirely honest Anthony, if you don't think it's interesting to make an 
experimental conlang that explores what language is and what it's capable of, I 
don't know what the fuck you're doing in the conlang community. Either explain 
to us why this wild distinction you're making is somehow neither meaningless or 
arbitrary, or shut up about how good you're stupid new radio shows are and how 
this other language intentionally designed not to encompass complicated ideas 
is bad for not being able to express complex ideas over and over forever.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:39 49558,
So, you do it, retranslate what you translated into Toki pona, word for word so 
people who haven't spent the several days it takes to be able to master its 120 
words and grammar will know what you think contains the meaning of the original 
so they can judge if it's clear what it's talking about.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:40 49558,
You could translate the words you claim carry the same meaning of the original 
sentence, that it would prove my point that Toki pona cannot function as a real 
language but only  - as a means of saying extremely simple things- as its 
inventor intended.  It can't translate Moby Dick as was claimed, it can't even 
translate that one sentence and produce a clear meaning as to what is being 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:42 49558,
Why, Donnie, I didn't think you spent your time on Youtube conlang comment 
threads.   I have a feeling that Comey, when he's asked, under oath will deny 
what Trump claims about him telling him that - especially the version in the 
iterview with Lester Holt because Comey isn't stupid enough to have broken the 
law by setting up a quid pro quo (how do you translate that into Toki pona, I 
wonder).  Donald Trump has criminal reasons to have tried to stop the 
investigation into his campaign and regime committing treason with the Putin 
crime family, I can only imagine how many family members and associates he's 
going to pardon as he flees on a chopper with a guarantee by Pence (assuming he 
hasn't already been forced out) that he'll pardon him like Ford pardoned Nixon. 
Why does it surprise me that the rest of it sounds like Trump, too?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:44 49558,
So you don't do English particularly well, do you.  I listened to the hearing 
where Clapper and Yates testified, that's not what they said. 
Apparently the reason you don't notice that Toki pona isn't a real language 
able to deal specifically with anything but the simplest level of vague 
communication because you don't think at a very high level, either.  
How many of the guys I've been arguing with are your sock puppets?

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:45 49558,
Anthony McCarthy they dont do english at all they speak it

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:47 49558,
Akira Enderle also do you have a reddit account?? id love to see your conlang

Conlang Dude
Sun May  4 12:20:48 49558,

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:50 49558,
What did I say that was not true?  
No one who didn't know what was going on in the news would have understood 
either of those sentences in Toko pona.   "mi povas diri unu aferon al vi" 
really, which online translator did YOU use. 
Eble ili kredas ke vi pravas, "kredas" cxar ili ne pensas.  Ili scias nenion 
pri la problemoj de interkomunikado.  Por ili, estas ret-ludilo.
Friggin' TP has got me all messed up.  Bah!

Sun May  4 12:20:51 49558,
Just so no-one gets me mistaken, I am not a trump supporter.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:53 49558,
I wonder how many of those are your sockpuppets.
And as I told someone above, mordu min.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:20:54 49558,
I suspect that one of your commentators might be the anti-Esperanto troll Bruce 
Gilson who used to infest conlang discussions, he was a right wing Republican, 
as I recall.

Sun May  4 12:20:56 49558,
rawr XD bites u >w<

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:58 49558,
Anthony McCarthy do you honestly think seth gets his friends to gang up on 
someone on youtube?? also ive never ever seen, heard or otherwise communicated 
with someone who i knew was white as quickly as you

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:20:59 49558,
sethraptor we must be annoying the fuck out of mitch

Sun May  4 12:21:01 49558,
Sorry Mitch

Luis Manuel Ontiveros
Sun May  4 12:21:02 49558,
Lol. I'm still getting my daily update of this mess :v

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:21:04 49558,
I have no idea why several people who obviously know nothing about conlangs are 
doing this,  I'm just answering them.  As a comment down thread says, I'm 
getting updates on this and most of them seem to be attacking what I said.  I 
don't have any problem answering them because most of the stuff is either silly 
on its face or stuff that was said in conlang discussions before the word was 
invented and before most of you were born. 
That one or more of them are suckers for Donald Trump even as he proves himself 
to be a liar, a traitor and a pathological falling despot  doesn't surprise me.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:21:05 49558,
Anthony McCarthy yes youre right akira (and almost definitely seth, mike s, 
etc.) and i have made conlangs but we dont know what they are according to you, 
and im not a narcissist im a fucking dumbass who hates themself but seth, akira 
and i havent said a word that's untrue or false (unless it was sarcastic but 
youre a big boy, you can figure that out yourself)

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:06 49558,
A conlang made by someone who has a habit of attributing statements to people 
who haven't made them, I wonder what that would be like.  Where is it 
published, I want to see it. 
It's no great achievement to having constructed a language project, as Don 
Harlow pointed out in that chapter I recommended to you, Mario Pei said he used 
to get several sent to him every month.  The only one that has ever been more 
than a scheme or a project, both generating an actual user community which uses 
it for actual communication on a sufficient level, over more than a century, 
now, is Esperanto.  It has had the proven stability - with modest, minor 
changes in common usage but with the structure intact - and the practicality to 

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:07 49558,
Anthony McCarthy im sorry are you genuinely trying to say that one's 
personality and traits come across in their conlang(s)? i'm sorry, are you 
really that stupid? also, sorry, you're right, nothing seth, akira, etc. and i 
has ever made is a real conlang, because they're not as good as esperanto

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:09 49558,
Getting insults from someone like you don't bother me.  If you'd given me 
reasons to respect your thinking it might. 
If you want to create a language which no one but yourself will ever use, go 
ahead.  I don't care.  But the idea of a conlang is to communicate among people 
who aren't contained in your own head. 
Eventually most normal people want to talk with other people about something 
other than conlangs so they'll want an actual language they can learn easily, 
use naturally with which to talk to other people.  It isn't a geeky form of 
gaming niche, it's a means of communication with normal people about other 

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:10 49558,
Anthony McCarthy you havent given any of us a reason to respect your thinking, 
because it's fucking stupid. and no, the idea of a conlang is not to 
communicate with others, it is an art form and of course you're gonna come up 
with some bullshit that only makes sense to you to refute that.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:12 49558,
Anthony McCarthy also, what the fuck, who said conlanging was a "gaming niche"? 
what the fuck are you on about?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:13 49558,
Apparently that's what it is for you.  A language that can't communicate, that 
exists in the inventor's head, you don't need the word "conlang" for that, 
there's already a term for a language only one person can understand, it's 
called a "dead language" or, when no one else ever has or ever will understand 
it an aborted language.   I wonder how many of your fellow gamester-conglangers 
will bother to learn each others languages.  How many can say "May I order a 
cup of coffee" in yours?  Can you say that?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:15 49558,
Now you're just being a silly billy. I'm old enough that I remember when 
conlang discussions weren't the equivalent of the Society For Putting Things On 
Top of Other Things.   It was about people communicating.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:16 49558,
Anthony McCarthy each other's*

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:18 49558,
Anthony McCarthy "silly billy"?? jesus christ man

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:20 49558,
So you don't want to reveal to the world how you would order a cup of coffee in 
your invented language?  
How many of you geeks have learned each others languages?  I'm guessing that 
you NEVER learn to use them, I doubt most of you ever learn them, yourselves.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:21 49558,
I was trying to use language you might understand.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:23 49558,
Anthony McCarthy you cant order cups of coffee because there arent any words 
for cup or coffee (yet) and it doesnt fucking matter if we learn eachother's or 
whoever uses them, a (con)language's worth is not defined on the amount of 
people who learn it and are you seriously calling us "geeks"?? do you live in 
the 1950s?? and also, we're geeks but you've been having conlang discussions 
for decades?? grow the fuck up man youre an adult

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:24 49558,
Is there a word for "douchebag"?  
So, you're telling me, pretty much, that your imaginary language is essentially 
as real as an imaginary friend.

Sun May  4 12:32:26 49558,
My favorite kong lang is the DK rap

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:27 49558,
Anthony McCarthy where the fuck did the imaginary friend come from what the 
fuck are you on about you crazy old fuck

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:32:29 49558,
sethraptor it's a conglangue* stupid young'uns

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:32:30 49558,
If you can't order coffee in it, I've got no use for it.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:05 49558,
Anthony McCarthy good for you

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:07 49558,
"Crazy old fuck" as opposed to someone who makes up languages that no one will 
ever speak or use and which apparently aren't supposed to be communicated with. 
If you can't deal with an absolutely obvious simile like that one, I'd really 
love to see what your invented languages are supposed to be like.   
Do I get points for avoiding saying "callow young dick" for this long?

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:09 49558,
Anthony McCarthy i do want people to see them which is why i post about them on 
reddit also no you dont get any fucking points this isnt a game jesus christ 
you are painful to communicate with

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:10 49558,
Akira Enderle i dont know if i pronounced it right but damn that* sounds good 
(* = assuming i pronounced it right)

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:12 49558,
Akira Enderle ive been doing spanish in school for two years and you can tell 
that very easily by the fact that i didnt realize that wasnt spanish (although 
to be fair most auxlangs borrow heavily from spanish), also i thought the 
spanish for and was y not e?? anyway thats a great looking script

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:13 49558,
Akira Enderle oh and also i was confused by the fact you said you spoke two 
languages, neither of which were espagnol (dont have n tilde on this keyboard)

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:15 49558,
Akira Enderle all i really know how to say is "soy una manzana" and "yo hablar 
abogado" so im p much set

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:25 49558,
Go ahead.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:27 49558,
Anthony McCarthy what a scathing retort

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:29 49558,
Akira Enderle thats pretty damn impressive man congrats

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:31 49558,
I let him have that one. It wasn't worth topping.
Raymond Chandler, Playback

Sun May  4 12:33:32 49558,
You could have just said the quote without citing it and saved me ten seconds 
of googling

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:34 49558,
I don't quote without attribution. Though I might paraphrase. 
Why did you google it?  Fact checking?

Sun May  4 12:33:35 49558,
I don't know who raymond chandler is, lol

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:37 49558,
If that's meant to be ironic, it's not.  If it's true, I used to remember when 
people who liked to pretend they were smart made a minimum of effort at 
appearing informed.  And here I thought my generation was a come down from the 
one before it.

Sun May  4 12:33:39 49558,
I don't think that not recognizing the name of a novelist from the 30s makes me 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:40 49558,
He wrote up into the 1950s and as he's one of the most popular novelists 
America has had.  Yeah, it does make you uninformed.  
You ever hear of Faulkner?  Steinbeck?  
What do they teach in schools these days?

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:43 49558,
Anthony McCarthy youre a teacher and you dont know what they teach in schools?? 
youre the uninformed one

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:45 49558,
I have teach private lessons, I haven't taught in a classroom in more than a 
So, you know who Faulkner and Steinbeck were?

Sun May  4 12:33:47 49558,
I'm not that into literature outside of some sci-fi, and no they don't make you 
read hardboiled detective fiction in school. There's lots of things in the 
world to give your attention to, I don't think you can really rag on a guy for 
not knowing every important author, nowadays especially.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:49 49558,
i dont have teach private lessons
old white people most likely

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:51 49558,
darn young'uns and your scientitism

Sun May  4 12:33:52 49558,
If I knew I was going to be playing Jeopardy today, I would have studied.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:54 49558,
My typical student is in their teens to early 20s.  
I'd rather be old and informed than young and ignorant, which you prefer.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:33:56 49558,
Anthony McCarthy how the fuck do you know

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:58 49558,
I've read your comments. 
Are you so stupid that you didn't see how I would answer that?   If you're not 
Bruce Gilson you're his reincarnation.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:33:59 49558,
At least tell me you know who Faulkner and Steinbeck are.  I won't open a vein 
if you don't but it will shock me.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:34:01 49558,
Anthony McCarthy i know i just wanted to annoy you, also i already said i dont 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:34:02 49558,
I can hardly wait for you to publish your con lang.   I forget, was yours the 
one which uses G. B. Shaw's alphabet?   If so, a. it will never be adopted, b. 
you do know that Shaw wrote stuff, don't you.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:34:04 49558,
Anthony McCarthy you seem to have extreme difficult in typing the word 
"conlang", you've called them "conglangs", "conlangues" and now "con langs", 
theyre only 8 letters like come on youre a grown man

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:34:05 49558,
Akira Enderle well obviously its not in esperanto and itll never work because 
its not esperanto and everything needs to be like esperanto because its the 
only real conlang

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:34:07 49558,
Do you "like" your own comments?  
Esperanto is the only conlang which has a large, international user community, 
an actual, readable literature, a history of continual use, actual usefulness, 
etc.   It is used expertly by many people whose mother tongues are from a large 
number of family groups - not merely Indo-European. It is easily learned and in 
the experience of those who take the small effort to master it, quite natural 
in the experience of using it.   By any measure, it is the most successful 
conlang in the history of such efforts.  It has withstood attacks for its 
entire history and has maintained the integrity of its structure, those who use 
it today can read its literature back into the 19th century with just about 
complete comprehension.  Whereas other languages such as Ido produce factions 
and schisms and one "reform" after another, always in the process of reformers 
coming up with reforms all on their own, Esperanto is stable going on a century 
and a quarter of actual use with minimal changes which don't impinge on its 
Let me know when even one person can actually say something in your language 
project, never mind the one other fluent user of it, the bare minimum for a 
language to actually exist as a language, before one of them stops using it or 
dies to join the other thousands of still-born constructed languages. 
I'm more interested in using a language than in fantasizing about the language. 
  I don't have lifetimes to wait for those fantasies to produce something 
useful and I don't need to because that already exists. 
You are childish.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:34:08 49558,
The Shaw alphabet is used by no one except, apparently, those who want to get 
hold of money from the Shaw estate.  
I was vaguely aware of it and that Androcles and the Lion had been issued in 
the alphabet.  Reading a little  - about as much time as I hope to spend on it 
in my life - I see that Androcles attempts to reproduce British received 
pronounciation which I sure as hell won't adopt, so the pretense that it is 
phonetic is out the window right there. I also see that someone has used it to 
publish some Poe.  As Poe grew up in several different places in early early to 
mid 19th century United States and certainly didn't speak with a Brit Received 
pronunciation,  I wonder if the imposition of it on his words isn't a complete 
distortion of them.  I'd have to hear someone reading his poetry and prose in 
the Brit received to judge how ridiculous it was. 
You do know that Poe was a writer, don't you? 
I also see that, as with Ido, the supposed advocates of it disagree about what 
sounds to assign to the various letters.  Let me know when there is universal 
agreement about that.  In about a thousand years when it will all be more than 
People wined about the handful of accents in written Esperanto and thought that 
was a breaking point - though the use of "x" has arisen as a perfectly viable 
alternative to that even above Zamenhof's suggestion of using an "h" in that 
role.  I use it all the time while typing, using a tiny little program to make 
those into accented letters at the touch of a key.   Looking at the Shavian 
alphabet I count about five letters that would be recognizable to anyone who 
uses a Latin alphabet,  so it turns that complaint about Esperanto on its head 
proposing an even less recognizable means of written communication.  And 
considering such things as "ligatures" involved, it is a thing of dotty 
Have you even read Androcles and the Lion in standard English spelling?   It's 
not a great play, it's seldom performed.  
I can't think of a practice that would more quickly relegate a proposed 
language to a still birth.  I'd suggest you rethink that one.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:45:33 49558,
Anthony McCarthy i wouldnt suggest they rethink, your word is not law, stop 
acting as though you have some kind of intellectual authority because you know 
a bunch of writers

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:45:36 49558,
Well, I'm glad you realize that someone reading about the Shavian alphabet for 
about twenty minutes online and noting the actual non-use of it and its 
ridiculously impractical and rather stupid features wouldn't make someone an 
"intellectual authority" on it.  Though, far less, would not knowing that make 
someone an authority.
I think you boys are a good example of what happens when people stop reading 
adult books.  Stupidity ensues.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:45:38 49558,
Anthony McCarthy stupidity ensues though you cannot spell conlang right and 
youve repeated ignored the use of question marks. do not call people stupid if 
you dont know anything of their intellect. im conversational in finnish, 
afrikaans and french and im well versed in the fields of astronomy, particle 
physics (to a lesser degree), neuroscience (lesser degree) and linguistics. i 
know im not some super god of all mighty intelligence, im probably not even 
smarter than you but i am not stupid

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:45:40 49558,
Now you're getting whiny.  If you hadn't noticed, Youtube comment's aren't 
exactly your higher level of university press.  I'd rather include a few typos 
and misspellings (I'll bet you're unfamiliar with Shaw as a critic of standard 
English spelling) than to spout total nonsense and ignorance.  
I can assure you, kid, that I'm a teacher going on many decades, having gone 
through undergrad and grad school before the age of spell check.  You know, 
back when you were expected to have read something by writers like Steinbeck 
and Faulkner and others.   Even people who went on to major in what they call 
STEM subjects, these days. Maybe you spent too much time on Aqua Teen and video 
Anyone who thinks anyone uses the Shavian alphabet except to get money from his 
estate is silly.  I would bet the fewer than a handful of books and the several 
issues of one magazine published in it have been read by more than about twenty 
to fifty people in the entire history of the effort.  Including the authors and 
publishers, is silly.  Probably only including them.  It is a farce that Shaw 
couldn't do justice to.  Mel Brooks came close in a movie script dealing with 
fraud for profit.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:45:43 49558,
Oh, you do know that William Shakespeare of Stratford couldn't spell his own 
name, don't you.  Go look at his signatures, not to mention the spelling in the 
First Folio.  Whoever wrote those plays and poems sure as hell wouldn't have 
known how to spell "conlang".   
I doubt your alleged resume is any more real than your constructed "language".  
The idea that it's like an imaginary friend gains credibility with every one of 
your comments.   You might be able to bluff your fellow "conlang" ranger boys 
with that but don't try to pull it on me, kid.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:45:45 49558,
Anthony McCarthy no, also they also wouldnt have been able to spell 
"phenomenology" because it wasnt a word at the time, as was not "conlang". also 
also, the inability of shakespeare to spell his own name is not at all relevant 
to your most-of-the-time misspelling of "conlang" also also also, are you 
honestly comparing yourself to shakespeare because you cant spell a word?? you 
are a ridiculous man
do you think im making this all up?? for my own entertainment, or perhaps to 
stoke my massive ego and assert my dominance as the intellectual he-oh wait, 
that's what you're doing. you think your knowledge of a bunch of irrelevant 
writers overrides my intelligence because i dont share the same views as you. i 
think toki pona is a valid conlang and that esperanto isnt that good and 
somehow that nullifies all the actually important things i know, because you 
dont agree. everyone who doesn't think the exact same as you is completely 
wrong because they arent you. are you really that solipsistic, that craven, 
self obsessed, that obsessed with self-assurance and validation that you base 
your views on others with how their's coincide with yours?? you're a grown man 
and whether or not youre good in arguments youre obviously a smart man with a 
class so grow up and act like the big boy you are

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:45:48 49558,
Well, he couldn't spell his own name.  That was there.  
I remember the champion speller in my class had a knack of visual memory but he 
was of rather low intelligence.  I think he ended up working for the owner of a 
chain of laundromats.   Don't know what he's doing now.  
You'd have thought Emily Dickinson was an idiot too.  You heard of her? 
You're just sulking now.  It's not much fun to tease someone who just sulks.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:45:51 49558,
Anthony McCarthy youre just rambling about irrelevant shit that has nothing to 
do with anything

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:45:54 49558,
Well, I have been talking about your project this morning, so that's accurate, 
in one sense.  
You are nuts.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:45:57 49558,
Anthony McCarthy no i am human

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:00 49558,
Akira Enderle minä pidän tämää kaverea

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:46:03 49558,
My argument is that if people had problems with 6 accented letters in Esperanto 
they weren't about to adopt an alphabet that had only five letters they'd 
recognize at all.  
Let me know when your imaginary friend and you can talk together in  your 
imaginary language for 20 minutes at a time. 
No, cancel that, I don't really care. 
I suspect I knew most of those moons decades before you were born, bunky.  I 
was a bit of a science geek when I was a kid.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:06 49558,
Anthony McCarthy only one of your last five replies have mentioned those six 
(not including this one of course), boy you will not let this imaginary friend 
thing go will you?? i didnt realize your massive knowledge of english 
literature gave you extensive insights the complex neurological functions, 
patterns and idiosyncrasies of our brains. why ask if you dont wanna see it?? 
what was the point in that?? "bunky"?? really??

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:10 49558,
im sorry mitch rlly

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:13 49558,
Akira Enderle is your reddit account akso akiraenderle?? im looking forward to 
seeing it, what's it called?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:46:16 49558,
If you young dolts hadn't answered my first comment it's the last one I'd have 
posted. It's not my fault you've kept proving your ignorance and silliness. 
Do you "like" your own comments or do you  like" each other's?   You should 
look up the song "Mutual Admiration Society".  It could be your theme song.  
Maybe you could translate it into Toki pona.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:46:19 49558,
I think you should look up the history of all of those things you apparently 
figure were invented since you were born.  I probably studied Spanish and 
German before you were born, too.  Not to mention C++ though the last time I 
was associated with a college Pascal was the groovy language, I looked it up 
C++ was first published in 1985.  Had you been born yet?
I doubt you know more than the word phenomenology I probably read Husserl 
before your parents were born.   Look him up, bunky, he died in 1938.  I'm 
assuming you know who he was, though that's assuming more than is safe with 
I have found it funny to have you youngsters figuring that such stuff was after 
my time.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:46:24 49558,
Good luck with that "gather a large community around it" part of your scheme.  
I wouldn't suggest holding your breath waiting for it to happen. 
I thought you boys were whining that this thread was getting too long and here 
you keep it going.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:28 49558,
Anthony McCarthy "i doubt you know more about the word phenomenology i read 
husserl before your parents were born"??? what???

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:46:33 49558,
Do I friggin' have to spell it out for you E-D-M-U-N-D H-U-S-S-E-R-L.  If you 
don't know who he was you don't know crap about phenomenology.  Let me guess, 
you read the word someplace and figured it sounded impressive.  Geesh, what a 
bunch of phonies you guys are.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:46:38 49558,
Will prove me wrong in what sense and on what topic?  If it's on constructing 
the universally accepted and used uber-perfect universal language, Zamenhof was 
a genius who came closest to doing that as proven by the history of the effort. 
 Many of them thar professional linguists touted here tried to outdo him, some 
of them quite famous in their day. and their attempts are either totally dead 
or have been kept alive as brain dead corpses, just barely.  
Now, why don't you whine about how long this has been going on as you and your 
tag team buddy keep it going even longer.  I'd just as soon not waste the time, 
though when you say something really stupid it's too tempting to answer it. 
What in the world ever happened to the idea of a liberal education?  Well, I 
guess I should ask what ever happened to the idea of AN education.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:42 49558,
Anthony McCarthy phenomenology is the study of the structures of consciousness 
from the first person and no i used it bc i like how it sounds

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:46:46 49558,
Anthony McCarthy also dont talk to us about spelling mr conglangue

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:47:18 49558,
If you don't know Edmund Husserl you don't know, literally, the first thing 
about phenomenology.  You are a B. S. artist.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:47:22 49558,
Anthony McCarthy i dont know who he is but i do know the first thing about 
phenomenology which is that it's the first person study of structures of 
consciousness. there's no point knowing who made something before you know what 
the thing itself is

Daniel Alorbi
Sun May  4 12:47:27 49558,
Nathan Harding Nathan Harding What's the argument about? Sounds like one guy 
likes Esperanto a lot dislikes Toki Pona a lot and everyone else is trying to 
show him that he should consider Toki Pona a conlang. It looks like it's 
devolved into questioning each other's authenticity too.
I'm going to give a stab at providing some facts
Everyone in this discussion at least knows more about conlangs and linguistics 
than the average person
Toki Pona was designed to be a simplistic conlang, the creator believes it to 
be one.
Esperanto has a big community, (possibly the biggest of existing conlangs)
Anthony measures conlangs against their potential to be used in everyday 
situations and expressiveness compared to natural languages
In conclusion Anthony will not accept that Toki Pona is a good conlang or even 
"truly" a conlang. Other members will not accept that only Toki Pona is not a 
Sound about right?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:47:31 49558,
Not exactly, Toki pona with its c. 120 word vocabulary cannot function as a 
language in real life.  It's the conlang equivalent of a sheltered workshop.  
If you want to see some discussion of people who knew what they were talking 
about, look up the old conlang treads back when people like Don Harlow were 
around to talk about them.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:47:35 49558,
If you don't know the literature of phenomenology you don't know anything about 
it except what you'll find in a dictionary or encyclopedia (and those would 
probably mention Husserl).  And in the case of phenomenology, you can't get 
around the writings of Edmund Husserl which are the origin and heart of matter. 
 It would be like claiming to know about physics without knowing the math.

Grumble Bee
Sun May  4 12:47:40 49558,
Anthony McCarthy Oh my god this is hilarious but at the same time sad. But 
mostly sad.  Sometimes I hate being an Esperantist.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:47:45 49558,
What's hilarious about it?   
Cxu vi vere estas samideiano?  Mi ne kredas ke vi vere estas.

Sun May  4 12:47:49 49558,

Sun May  4 12:47:54 49558,
I think you all have valid points. Anthony thinks of conlangs as tools for 
communication. To them, a bad conlang is one that fails at that (by being too 
simplistic, in the case of Toki Pona).
The others think of a conlang as having its own purposes. Someone said conlang 
creation is an artform. Some people, myself included, create conlangs for fun 
and/or for personal use. They don't have to be perfect, or good for 
communication, or even useable (e.g. kay(f)bop(m)!). For a personal conlang, 
they just have to make its creator satisfied and it will have achieved its 
purpose. Different conlangs set out to achieve different goals. Esperanto 
arguably achieves a lot of its goals (relatively simple to learn, useful tool 
for communication) and yes, it is a good conlang in my opinion. But that 
doesn't automatically make Toki Pona a bad one. The latter also achieves its 
primary goals (extreme simplicity and ease of learning), perhaps even 
So I guess Anthony has a fairly narrow view of what a conlang should be, and 
that's fine! But it should be understood that not all conlangs had/have/will 
have exactly the same goals, and I think comparing two vastly different 
languages is a futile exercise.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:47:57 49558,
That's almost right, I distinguish between a language which is for 
communication and the creation of a pseudo-language structure which is not for 
communication but which is a personal amusement. 
I said that I have no problem with people doing that if they want to or even 
playing with it, such as was the case of the Esperanto Youth Group of Toki Pona 
users who held a workshop-gathering session on it at a convention.  I would 
like to hear how those people who can use a real con-lang for communications 
used it, wondering if they were able to give it an, as it were, maximal test of 
its limits.  I don't have any problem with someone making up a pseudo-language 
using the Shavian alphabet but to compare a language like Esperanto or Ido to 
it is comparing apples to imaginary apples.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:48:00 49558,
The inventor of a language isn't the one who decides if it goes from being a 
mere project into becoming a real language, a community of users of the 
language does that.  Let me know how that works for you.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:48:04 49558,
Un, maybe you should learn how to read English before you start counting your 
speakers before they hatch.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:48:10 49558,
OK, so you don't know much about politics, either.  
Did Bernie Sanders say exactly what you put in quotes?  Where's your citation?  
I never said either of those things or the rest of it.   The government 
"seizing the means of production" doesn't mean that something is socialism.  As 
far as I'm concerned that's not socialism because it is only when the WORKERS 
own the means of production that it's socialism as far as I'm concerned. 
You are a silly.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:48:13 49558,
Maybe you don't know how quotation works.  When you say someone said something 
and put that something in quotation marks it indicates that you're claiming 
that they said what you put in quotation marks.  In the thing you cite to back 
up your quotation,  Sanders said,  "These days, the American dream is more apt 
to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and 
Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the 
land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?"  
He talked about income equality, not socialism.  
Geesh, where did you go to school? 
As for the definition of socialism, you should have read a bit down the page 
because your own citation mentions that the meaning of socialism has meant 
different things and has changed over time.  I believe it was Lenin who decided 
it meant that the government owned the means of production, something I've 
never agreed with, especially a non-democratic government.   
I'm not interested in any kind of socialism which means anything but that the 
workers who produce the wealth of an entity own the means of production, not 
someone who lends them money and who got paid off with interest several 
generations ago.  I'm against anything but egalitarian democracy that includes 
economic justice.  
You are a boob.

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 12:49:25 49558,
(First posted a month ago)
(Most recent posted hours ago)

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:49:26 49558,
Hey, you make it 201.  
I'm just answering people.  If no one had responded to my first comment I'd 
probably have forgotten making it by now.

Sun May  4 12:49:40 49558,
Nice English m8.

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 12:49:41 49558,
I have a question : are all esperantists douchebags and treat other languages 
with different purposes like trash ?
just asking...

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 12:49:43 49558,

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 12:49:45 49558,
btw did you know that Conlang Critic made a video about this comment ?

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 12:49:47 49558,
Is2DealYou Яаgиа well its not esperanto so much it must be ridiculously 
terrible unless its mimicing esperanto

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:49:51 49558,
Since you obviously mean me,  what language did I do anything other than 
describe?  Since we're talking about inventions, invented languages being 
inventions, if they don't work as a means of communication they're essentially 
games, in the case of most of those discuseed here, the equivalent of solitaire 
since no one else in the world but the inventor is ever going to even bother to 
learn of their existence or learn them.  The one whose author claims they're 
going to use the Shavian alphabet doesn't even seem to have done the actual 
inventing, it's more of a fantasy than a game.  
I don't care what silly people do among themselves but any real language is 
there for the purpose of communication between people. If it's only meant for 
the inventor to use, that's not a language.  In most cases it's not even a 
personal code because talking about what they're intending to do is as far as 
it goes. 
The historical fact is that the only conlang to have ever gained a substaintial 
body of users who use it is Esperanto.  It has stood the test of time and use 
since the end of the 19th century.  If you learn the language as it's used 
today, you will have little, if any, trouble reading what's written in it for 
the entire history of the langage.  Ido has never had that level of stability 
and nothing like the flexibility.   Though it is certainly simple to learn - if 
they'd stopped fiddling with it they might have gotten somewhere.  
A lot was made in early conlang online discussion of Novial by one Bruce Gilson 
who managed to gather a few people together to make what I'm sure they believed 
would be just one last "reform" of that disused conlang before it took the 
lead.  From what I gather, that effort petered out c. 1998 or so.  This 
discussion is about on that same level.  I've seen this B.S. for going on two 
decades now.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:49:53 49558,
No, for some reason I have no interest in listening to it.

Nicholas Layton
Sun May  4 12:49:55 49558,
Well let's be honest, toki pona is useless as a language. You can try to play 
with it in small talk but no one is going to understand what each other is 
trying to convey in any kind of meaningful conversation. And let's be even more 
honest, any efforts put into creating a new IAL is an exercise in futility. 
It's mental masturbation at best and will never be anything useful to anyone, 
including yourself.

You Safar
Sun May  4 12:49:57 49558,
People like Anthony are the main reason people kabei though (in my opinon).

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 12:50:01 49558,
Oh, bite me.

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 12:50:04 49558,
This is probably the largest comment argument in youtube i had seen.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 13:05:07 49558,
Anthony McCarthy the definition you see in a dictionary or encyclopaedia is the 
first thing about that thing, that's kinda the point

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:09 49558,
If people hadn't said what they did to my first comment I wouldn't have posted 
a second one here.  
I've seen longer but, yeah, this has gone on a long time.  But there is a 
precedent in the actual history of conlangs, I'd start that with the first 
agitation of the Ido promoters.  I think the subsequent history of "better" 
conlangs and how, one after another, they went nowhere is an indication of what 
the future of them will be like.  Meanwhile, Esperanto is the only one which 
has had any notable success.  It is the only one with any proven history of 
actual use.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:10 49558,
Oh, so the definition of a word that they put first is the only real, right way 
to use a word and the rest of those uses, often by some very fine authors and 
thinkers, is, by that arbitrary fiat, wrong.  
Well, there are some people who don't agree with that arbitrary rule which was 
never a rule I was taught.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:11 49558,
You are assuming that all conlangs measure of success is how widespread their 
use is. In fact it seems like a lot of the methods you use to dismiss other 
peoples points are based on using your personal reasons for believing esperanto 
has been successful as a metric against all others which are brought up.
edit: Anthony, I know you said you were mad initially because of mistakes he 
made when talking about Esperanto in this video. What were they? Just curious.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:12 49558,
Actually, what I thought was that he didn't know what he was talking about 
I said from the beginning that if anyone wants to play with Ido or Logban or 
some one of the other thousands of proposed language projects, I have no 
problem with them doing it.  I don't have any problem with people making up 
some kind of personal code system as a language.  But I do have a huge problem 
with them a. misrepresenting the history and content and proven usability of 
the one and only invented language to have gained a widespread user community.  
b. misrepresenting the success of other projects which failed to even gain a 
fixed form that people could learn without any guarantee that what they learned 
wouldn't be deemed "wrong" within a month of them learning it.  
I don't have any interest in expanding my criticism of the author of the video 
except to say what I have.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:13 49558,
I don't think I'm going to change my mind that you are a very silly person who 
doesn't know what he's talking about and who doesn't know much of anything 
about Esperanto as it is used by the largest number of users of an invented 
language in the history of the effort to create one.  That is if you don't 
count Bahasa Indonesia (a semi-invented language)  which was imposed by 
government fiat and conquest.  
I have never heard an Esperantist mention the "fina venko" except to tell jokes 
about the idea.  Forcibly converting anyone to using Esperanto is entirely 
contrary to the intentions of Zamenhof and any sensible Esperantist I've ever 
read.   It was always intended as a second language for communication between 
people who didn't share a common language, it was never intended to supplant 
peoples' first languages, like English and others have.

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 13:05:14 49558,
Anthony McCarthy They share different opinions to you regarding Esperanto, so, 
of course, they're wrong and "very silly"

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:15 49558,
People are entitled to their own opinions they aren't entitled to their own 
"facts".  The history is what it is, it isn't what they want it to be, the body 
of present day Esperanto users is what it is, and you can compare that with 
what their fantasy "languages" they seem to prefer talking about instead of 
inventing are not what they are not. 
You might want to work on your English reading skills because you have a common 
disability of making things people say mean what you want them to mean instead 
of what they say.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:17 49558,
I know you said you don't want to expand but I'm going to ask anyways. Which 
facts? Do you mean in this video? Or are you talking about the esperanto video? 
Mi pardonpetas pri la demandado, but I don't understand why you chose this 
video, or even this platform, for whatever point it is you are trying to make. 
Are you just upset that he was dismissive instead of asking for corrections?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:18 49558,
Things went way past a critique of the video a long, long time ago.  
When I started this I intended to make one comment and if no one had answered 
it,  it is the only comment I would have made. When I get notifications that 
people are responding to what I said, I don't see why I don't get to respond to 
them and when they start being snarky why I can't snark back.   One thing I 
don't think I've been whiny or, as they say in Newfoundland, a sook.  Not all 
who have commented here can say the same, honestly.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:19 49558,
You can't deny you've been a little snarky, but I agree with you, people have 
been a little combative. It's silly for you to blame people responding to you, 
however. What made you think people would be okay with you taking a pot shot at 
the creator of the video, and that they wouldn't call you out on it? I'm almost 
getting the impression that you never had a real critique and felt offended he 
doesn't like Esperanto...everyone deserves benefit of a doubt, so I asked. Ne 
plu mi demandos se vi ne temos pri la kialo. Simpla scivolo :p Just wanted to 
see if asking nicely ended up any different to be totally honest.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:20 49558,
Oh, for heavens sake, I'm not the one who's been whining about the length of 
this discussion thread that's the people who have been saying things I can 
respond to. 
You are all Bruce Gilsons, phonies who won't ever come up with anything as you 
resent the person who did.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:21 49558,
Well, you got that they were at school and they were talking and there is a 
blond guy in the story and a few other things but, as I suspected, it didn't 
even carry the information in the first and easiest chapter in the book.  I'd 
really love to read someone try to express what Linda was thinking about what 
she'd do if the blond guy got up and walked out.  And that's not even nearly 
the most complex part of the story, coming in, if I recall correctly, about the 
first third of the book.  
I doubt it could deal with the even earlier chapter when Tom is trying to talk 
the Nurse into coming to take care of Gerda who has collapsed in the hall. 
Toki Pona is not a real functional language, it wasn't designed to be one.  No 
language that is restricted to 120 words could be a functional language.  No 
matter how well those words were chosen.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:23 49558,
I don't know, the translation looks pretty good to me, although I've read Gerda 
and you're right, this isn't the most complicated chapter, although none of 
them really are complicated, and the story is straightforward enough I'm sure 
anything that was confusing could be guessed. It wouldn't be very elegant (some 
nested ni/pi statements, surely), but the story could be translated if someone 
felt the desire to do it. 
(to anyone considering it, please direct your expertise towards marvirinstrato 
instead! Meduset is begging to be in toki pona, and mine isn't good enough to 
write yet)
Anthony, have you seen the monty python translation? It's very good:

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 13:05:24 49558,
I think I get Anthony's point of view: Any language out there that isn't 
designed for communication does not deserve to be called a language. (Or it 
fails to be one).

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:25 49558,
1) There are more dimensions to a language than its ability to be specific and; 
2) There is also communication with yourself internally. Since you already know 
what you're talking about, it doesn't matter if you're able to be specific. 
This being valid depends on whether or not you believe that the language(s) you 
know change the way you think. I do, obviously.
 I understand the point of view, It's just limited IMO. A language is, or at 
the very least can be, more than just a tool for interpersonal communication.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:26 49558,
A personal code is not the business of anyone else and I doubt it's interesting 
to anyone else.  I don't have any problem with people doing whatever they want 
to as long as they're honest about the nature of it and don't claim that it 
compares to real languages which are designed to communicate with other people. 
 By making public claims of that sort, they've taken it outside of the 
internal, personal realm and anyone can comment on it if they choose to. 
I said I didn't have any problem with anyone playing with Toki Pona or any 
other "language" as long as they were making absurd claims for it.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:28 49558,
The original sentence I challenged someone to translate was, "Donald Trump 
fired James Comey to try to stop the Russian election hacking investigation".

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:29 49558,
"jan Donald Trump li kama e ni: jan James Comey li jo ala e pali tan ni: ona li 
wile pake e ni: ona li lukin e ante losi pi wile ma"
Not my translation, but it's pretty close.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:30 49558,
Also can we please not have an off-topic debate about russians or trump or 
comey start in this thread.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:31 49558,
"place desire" = country will / desire of the land / election.
Donald Trump caused this:
James Comey doesn't have a job because:
he wanted to stop this:
he was looking into the Russian change of the will of the land
My best guess.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:32 49558,
rest of it was window dressing and a smoke screen. 
You have obviously bought the neo-fascist, FOX narrative that pretends that 
Trump didn't say that, himself but it is an obvious and transparent lie, 
obvious and transparent in a way that Toki Pona cannot express but which 
English can, as can Esperanto.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:34 49558,
It is not off-topic because I was giving an example of something important that 
Toki Pona could not express.  
I wasn't aware that there was some ban on subject matter on this comment 
thread, there was plenty of extraneous junk brought in by those opposing me, 
Phenomenology, for crying out loud, and by someone who obviously didn't know 
more than the word without knowing what it meant.
Try translating that into Toki Pona.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:35 49558,
What are you talking about, we just gave you two different ways to translate 
that sentence. If you want to say Trump said you just add jan Trump toki e ni:. 
If you want to say he dreamt it you could add that. If you wanted to say he 
wasn't sure if he dreamt it or not but it probably happened you could say that 
too. How far back did you want to move the goalposts this time?

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:36 49558,
I meant a "translation" of what I said in the comment. 
The "translations" a. don't contain the content of the original sentence, b. 
convey the meaning of the sentence, c. let anyone who doesn't know what is in 
the original sentence know what it says.  Those "translations" are not 
translations anymore than a circle drawn on a piece of paper is a portrait of a 
real person. 
How many languages do you speak?  I mean real ones, not "Toki Pona".

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:37 49558,
You are a Republican idiot and a traitor to democracy.

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 13:05:39 49558,
You people are in politics now?

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:05:40 49558,
+Akira Enderle
Well, there's your problem. Now can we please get back to watching Anthony 
spend over three irrecoverable months of his life actively writing about how a 
language can't be simple lest it lose it's status as a language? Don't get me 
wrong, I'm enjoying this thread in the same way I like to go laugh at /r9k/ 
sometimes, but fucking really? This is still happening? Either way, we're here 
for the linguistics, get out of here with this shit Akira. (Also, Akira, was 
the near-impeachment of Nixon treachery towards democracy? He was, after all, 
democratically elected. Don't actually answer that, you're proving nothing, and 
this is derailed enough.)
I would also kindly suggest that any future commentators also take this 
(Also, direct question to Anthony: the information is being retained, you just 
have to jump through some grammatical hoops. Is that not okay? Is Japanese not 
a real language because the grammatically correct sentence "Watashi wa ringo ga 
suki desu" translates to English literally as "As for myself, apple(s) are 
liked (by me)" instead of "I like apples"? Is Lojban not a language for it's 
reliance on abstract predicate logic to fuel its grammar (Can't give an 
example, I only know basic theory, not actual words/syntax)? Spanish translates 
"I am 20 years old" to "Tengo 20 años" back to "(I) have 20 years", is that 
unacceptable? Is it simply the number of concessions that Toki Pona must make 
that invalidates it? Even with all these questions, there's even more when you 
aren't speaking with an Anglophonic bias. Would a hypothetical native speaker 
of toki pona even notice the simplicity of the language? Would a native culture 
develop different language standards, kind like how Japanese poetry is more 
rhythm based than rhyming? Take all this with a grain of salt of course, since 
I do not speak toki pona, but I would still like clarification rather than "The 
language is too simple to speak complex thought with. Oh, you want an example? 
Nah, it's pretty self-evident, please translate something for me. When we back 
translated it, it sounds clunky and doesn't contain every detail I wanted but 
did not specify, so you've just proved my point, lol.")

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 13:05:41 49558,
Why is this discussed here instead of Conlang Critic's Esperanto Video?

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:43 49558,
Why are politics discussed in a conlang video? I'm convinced Anthony offered up 
that sentence just to ignore the translation that was offered and pretend like 
he had a good reason to yell at strawmen about Trump. People, don't be like 
Anthony, learn toki pona instead of Esperanto! (or learn both or neither, I 
don't care). If the we vs. Anthony argument can even still be considered a 
real, valid debate, I think it's become clear we're never going to win. 
mi wile e ni: jan ali ni li kama sona e toki pona. Ĝis y'all

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:05:44 49558,
Akira Enderle
Oh my god, this has to be bait. At least you're on topic…

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:45 49558,
ni li kama jo ike: jan lawa kama jo e mani pi jan anpa
ni li kama jo ike: jan lawa li jo e mani pi jan anpa (second kama is probably 
not needed)
This is an immoral way to acquire: leaders (coming to) have the money from 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:46 49558,
You have resorted to outright lying that is contradicted by the very claims of 
Donald Trump and the sworn testimony of people who have enormous credibility.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:47 49558,
Toki pona isn't just "simple" it is inadequate for communication.  
I didn't claim that Lojban wasn't a language, I said it was an invented 
language which was invented to demonstrate a linguistic theory from the 1930s 
which just about no credible linguist believes is true, b. which has failed to 
gain a speaking community EVEN AMONG THOSE WHO ARE ENTHUSIASTS OF IT and which 
will clearly never become a viable means of communication between people who 
don't share a non-planned language.
You obviously share something with the people who have kept this going by 
spouting nonsense, you can't understand anything in any but the most 
ridiculously pat, black or white terms.  Obviously the problem of coming up 
with a useful lingua franca used in addition to your native tongue is more 
complex than most of those here can deal with.  As I said, I saw this kind of 
stuff on conlang comment treads back in the 1990s. You can still read those 
online.  Anti-Esperantists tend to not know much of what they're talking about, 
though some pro-Idoists do, actually, know what they're talking about.  I 
disagree with some of what they believe but at least they have some foot in 

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:49 49558, works great, in addition to sonjas book. There aren't really an 
overwhelming number of resources so its acceptable, I think, to just try 
whatever you come across and see if you like it. Also, make sure to practice 
talking with other people, there are a few great chats on 
IRC/Discord/Facebook/Telegram, and probably others

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:05:50 49558,

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:51 49558,
That's not a bad point, and you bring up a decent valid criticism of toki pona, 
which is the choice of certain shared definitions (and even the inclusion of 
certain words). 
I personally learned toki pona mostly through Esperanto, so the inter-language 
point is intriguing to me. Although I think just memorizing phrases in another 
language would probably do as much good as learning the grammar and definitions 
involved with toki pona, it's still funny that both would probably work about 
as well. 
More drama: My personal biggest problem with toki pona is that if someone does 
not understand something you say in toki pona, it can be almost impossible to 
explain it to them without resorting to another language, as most of the time 
it is difficult to find an entirely different way of phrasing something that 
means the same thing.

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 13:05:52 49558,
261st reply !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:54 49558,
If no one had answered me with misinformation I'd have left it at the 1st 

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:55 49558,
"My personal biggest problem with toki pona is that if someone does not 
understand something you say in toki pona, it can be almost impossible to 
explain it to them without resorting to another language, as most of the time 
it is difficult to find an entirely different way of phrasing something that 
means the same thing."
A language which needs another language to explain what is meant in it is no 
language at all.  It reminds me of the description of the Volapuk meeting which 
had to be conducted in German because Volapuk was so cumbersome and that one of 
the early Ido propagandists had to correspond with LL Zamenof in French because 
he didn't know Esperanto.  As well as the letter by another condemning 
Esperanto as compared to Ido which was written in Esperanto.  
This discussion has convinced me of one thing, anyone who believes you can 
conduct your life in a language of 120 words either has a very simple-minded 
life or they are simple minded.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:05:56 49558,
You must be a very sad person to try to bait people you repeatedly insist you 
are superior than.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:57 49558,
That replying to me?  You boys can stop any time and I can assure you I won't 
post another comment here. It's not as if any of it was at all difficult.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:05:58 49558,
Oh, and, by the way, how come you guys use more than 120 words of English?  I 
challenge you to carry on a conversation about this in Toki Pona among 
yourselves and see if you understand each other.

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:06:00 49558,
+Akira Enderle
It turns out that I actually do like the taste of bait. Anywho, you're ideals 
are flawed. Why can't there be conflicting material on a news outlet? A truly 
neutral news outlet would have opinions from both sides, and quite a few of 
those examples from the album do. I mean really, do you expect every writer to 
agree on paid family leave? And again, news changes. Articles will conflict 
simply from being dated. Should you cover up the fact that you wrote an article 
with now proven false information, or leave it up, add a footnote, and write a 
new article? The first choice is shadier, and you seem to want it for some 
fucking reason.
And seriously? He's done nothing? Okay, seemingly you'll mindlessly follow any 
right-wing denial-based narrative, so if you'd be so kind, jump through some 
hoops to convince me that his son didn't ask for incriminating evidence against 
Hillary from Russia.
Edit: When the hell did I say I wanted a safe space?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 13:06:01 49558,
wow this thread is still going, huh? shame that it somehow became about 
politics somewhere in there but I guess that's what happens when a youtube 
comment thread lasts over three hecking months.
my favorite part of this (okay, ONE of my favorite parts of this. I can't just 
choose one part to like it's all so good) is that Anthony keeps saying that if 
nobody responded to his first comment this thread wouldn't've happened. it's 
really funny because the first comment he made was saying that I don't speak 
any con-langues that fit a really specific set of requirements that literally 
only apply to Esperanto and my response was literally just repeating the last 
thing he said and then after that I made a joke about being born after radios 
stopped being relevant
and somehow THAT provoked Anthony into writing these heckin essays about how 
toki pono or whatever it is isn't a real language because it doesn't have very 
many words (that's the point of the language, you dingus!)
my other favorite part is when he wrote a multiparagraph response to when 
sethraptor said "lol". that was really good

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 13:06:02 49558,
Conlang Critic cong-langues* stupid kids

Nathan Harding
Sun May  4 13:06:03 49558,
Conlang Critic in seriousness, yeah sethraptor has been amazing in this 
argument lmao

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:06:04 49558,
"the first comment he made was saying that I don't speak any con-langues that 
fit a really specific set of requirements that literally only apply to 
You should learn the difference between a question and a declarative sentence, 
at the very least you should actually re-read what I said in that comment which 
wasn't want you say.
"and my response was literally just repeating the last thing he said and then 
after that I made a joke about being born after radios stopped being relevant"
I wonder when you believe "radios stopped being relevant".  I'm sure they'll 
find that interesting at the BBC, Deutsche Welle, All India Radio, Radio China, 
Voice of America, etc.  As they still sell them and large parts of the world, 
especially in the developing world, depend heavily on radio you don't seem to 
know much about that either.  Certainly a language which is broadcast regularly 
on the radio is more relevant than one which never has been and never will be.  
 I wonder how you would define "relevance".   How do you say "relevant" in Toki 
Are you complaining that people are commenting on your Youtube channel?   
That's weird, most people would like that happening.  But if you are 
complaining about it, I'll make this my last comment here. The boys can carry 
on in the silliness they assert.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 13:06:05 49558,
don't get me wrong, I love everything about this thread. it's one of the 
funniest things I've ever seen and I'm glad to have inspired it. that bit there 
where you pretended not to know that it's possible to say something in the form 
of the question? fantastic! I love reading stuff like that

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 13:06:07 49558,
also, "relevant" is "suli". if you wanna get more specific, you could say 
something like "suli lon tenpo ni".

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:18:07 49558,
+Ramanuj Sarkar
Might as well derail it now, it's already become a political thread. Granted, 
it's being restored, but go ahead and work your magic.
This would usually be the point where I go silent and become a spectator again 
or just leave, but honestly, this thread is actually more hilarious as a 
participant. Keep laying out that bait, guys.

dominic maddock
Sun May  4 13:18:09 49558,
Anthony McCarthy you absolute idiot! who said made-up languages have to have 
speakers, grammar or complexity? the whole point of making a language is that 
you can flip the tables, do things a natural language cannot do! a personal 
language is a personal language, and if it pleases yourself then you have 
successfully created a conlang.
your problem lies in your fixed mindset, you forget that we are able to do 
whatever the fuck we want. saying 'your conlang will never be spoken by anyone' 
shouldn't be an insult, it should be a compliment, that your ideas are unique 
and complex to you. sure, toki pona is simple, and sure, esperanto is more 
popular, but we should look past all the hate and see that all of these 
conlangs were successful in their goal, maybe to please the creator, creator's 
friends, or speakers around the world.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:11 49558,
You  illiterate gobshite, I have said anyone should do anything they wanted to 
all through this discussion.  TRY READING, IF YOU CAN. 
Gee, conlang guy, why aren't you whining about this continuing ?

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:13 49558,
Right, people should do whatever they want, in between declaring what is and 
isn't a language and making sweeping statements about people who speak certain 
languages. :roll eyes:

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:14 49558,
I suspect all your projects will have a similar history to Gilson's Novial 
project that began and died c. 1998.  And he had a ready made language to work 

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:16 49558,
Why the quantitative measure of success though? Why can't something just be 
what it is and do what it does? Why are you figuring languages on a pass/fail 
anyways? I think you could benefit from learning toki pona, and I sincerely 
mean that :)

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:18:18 49558,
I think I'm having an existential crisis guys... Is Anthony more or less 
pretentious than Nathaniel Hawthorne? I actually can't tell anymore...

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:20 49558,
I'm not the one who is pretending that Toki Pona is a real language. 
At this point this is only interesting in so far as it reveals how silly you 
boys are.

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:18:22 49558,
And I'm not the one creating laughably vague standards just to fail a conlang I 
don't like, demeaning an entire community just because they don't agree with 
me, and using the word "boy" as an insult.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:24 49558,
Wow, requiring of a language that it at least work to communicate to other 
people in fairly specific ways about at least everyday life, what a novel 
concept.  You wonder why it didn't occur to anyone here before now.  .  
If you want me to treat you like adults, act like adults, kids.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:26 49558,
I guess the natural response is it's not up to you to decide what a person 
wants or doesn't want their language, or to be fair, their art work, to be. 
There is no reason a language has to be designed to facilitate communication 
with other people. There's no reason it even has to make it possible to 
communicate with other people. Even though you refuse to understand this, a lot 
of people do, and it's a good thing, too! Otherwise we'd all be speaking 
Esperanto instead of languages that actually challenge the way you think.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:39 49558,
I don't think he really has any problem with toki pona, he's just 
reeeealllllyyyyyy upset (lol) that someone insulted Esperanto. #fuckgreenpopes

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:18:42 49558,
"Communicate to other people in fairly specific ways about at least everyday 
I love that you want a stupid fucking made up language to have specificity when 
you yourself refuse to use it in your own. How many times have I asked for 
specific examples by now? And how many times have you responded with "it's not 
specific enough"? The irony is so deliciously brilliant I can taste it without 
opening my mouth.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:43 49558,
I asked for someone to translate the first and easiest chapter of Gerda 
Malaperis into Toki Pona and the person came up with an inevitably vague garble 
that doesn't carry the information in the first chapter (nevermind the 
following chapters that grow increasingly complex and nuanced) only to have 
TPists claim that it was an accurate translation.  I would challenge anyone to 
come up with a translation of it using 120 or 170 or 300 English language words 
that would convey the full meaning of the story, knowing that it couldn't be 
done, no matter how carefully you chose the English words to do it in.  You 
couldn't come up with 120 Esperanto words that would do that, even with its 
agglutinative features of word creation. 
You kids are what I said in my first comment here.  You are superficial, some 
of the stupidest and least honest people I've ever encountered in a discussion 
of conlangs.  You won't even try to make sense and, as you figure languages 
aren't for the purpose of accurate communication, you figure you don't need to. 
This is playtime, nothing important.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:45 49558,
lol it's inevitably vague garble to you because despite this convo going on for 
4 months you still haven't learned toki pona
also you just got dangerously close to admitting toki pona can do something 
esperanto can't, keep going

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:47 49558,
You can leave it at any time you choose to. I'm always so interested in people 
who complain at the lengths of arguments online as they continue to lengthen 
them.   Or doesn't that occur to you?  
If you think that I "got dangerously close to admitting that toki pona can do 
something esperanto can't" in what I said, that only proves that your reading 
facility is only slightly less deficient than your reasoning ability.  I will, 
though, admit that there is something Toki Pona can obviously do that Esperanto 
can't, make people make the most absurd claims about the ability of 120 words 
to comprise a complete language with the full abilities of a much larger 
vocabulary even as they prove that they can't.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:49 49558,
So you don't want to talk about any of the successful translations you have 
requested so far :(

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:18:51 49558,
A successful translation reproduces the information in the original in a way 
that someone who doesn't have access to the original would understand without 
recourse to another language.  
Toki Pona can't do that except for the most simple of things, JUST AS ITS 

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:53 49558,
That sentence you asked to be translated and the gerda translation both fit 
that criteria. The reason you specifically couldn't understand them is not 
because they were translated poorly, or they are unable to be translated, it's 
because you can't speak toki pona. Not that you can read it but how about the 
(absolutely perfect) translation of monty python and the holy grail which was 
linked? Did you even bother to look at that?

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sun May  4 13:18:55 49558,
Too much comments

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 13:18:57 49558,
Is2DealYou Яаgиа Same, but it's entertaining in its own right, kind of like 
watching a three month train wreck.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:18:58 49558,
pona lukin = attractive, good looking
suwi lukin = adorable, cute (although suwi alone works)

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:19:00 49558,
This thing has certainly shown that my first comment in this thread was true, 
it is silliness and that any serious view of the attempt to construct a 
workable, useful, easily learned lingua franca is best kept out of the hands of 
silly people.  L.L. Zamenhof was not a silly person, nor a theoretician but a 
practical and brilliant man who made the only one which has survived more than 
a century and a quarter and which is actually used for something other than 
playing games and being silly in.

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:19:02 49558,
Volapuk was too complex for easy learning and secure use and its inventor made 
the fatal error of insisting it was his proprietary property.  A language has 
to belong to the people using it.   Zamenhof learned a lot from both the good 
and the down side of the Volapuk experiment. 
I would like to know more about the people who read Volapuk and who might do 
those translations or use it for something.  I think the complexity of it can 
be seen in its verb conjugation that has, if what I'm reading is correct, more 
than a thousand, five hundred possible inflections.  Esperanto has six, which 
suffice for just about every purpose with some of the complexity of Schleyer's 
system taken up in a regular system of affixes which aren't nearly as complex.  
They're also not necessary for everyday use, for the most part.  
I think that all of the older constructed languages that have failed to gain an 
ongoing user community should be considered as having failed for the purpose of 
doing that.  I have no problem with people who want to use Volapuk  doing what 
they want to, though if I had to learn a language of that complexity, I'd 
rather learn a non-constructed language that was a window into an existing 
culture.  As it is, I've read many things by many people from many different 
places in Esperanto, not translations but directly from them in their own 
words, Mongolia, Croatia, Bulgaria, (many European countries) Japan, China, 
India,  Iran, etc. which aren't available in English or in an English text 
directly written by the author.  I've listened to many radio broadcasts and, 
even more, podcasts of spontaneous interviews in Esperanto, talking about 
things that have nothing to do with Esperanto.  For me, any competitor conlang 
would have to top that to convert me.

You Safar
Sun May  4 13:19:04 49558,
Why do you have to be converted, why can't you just learn both :(

Anthony McCarthy
Sun May  4 13:19:06 49558,
Granted, though after having had more than two decades of using Esperanto it 
would take a lot to convince me to learn another one.  Someone once accused me 
of having Esperanto as a second language but it was not, it was considerably 
down the list.  I can report, as I said earlier in this discussion, I find it 
far easier to use than French, my second language, which I use virtually every 

Phina Ibe
Sat Sep  3 13:19:08 50557,
Anthony McCarthy "The show that gets facts wrong about your favorite conlang!"

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sat Sep  3 13:19:09 50557,
Is it over?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:11 50557,
Not as long as people keep it going.  If no one had answered me it would have 
been over three months ago with my first comment.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:19:12 50557,

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:13 50557,
"Why did you hit the other boy, little Anthy?"
lol indeed.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:14 50557,
Don't be such a cry baby.  I'd assumed you were all big boys, guess I was wrong.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:15 50557,

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:17 50557,
Kind of a bad reason to like it, considering that that would stimulate the 
creation of potentially infinite microdialects. Either way, I'm not going to 
call it not a language and you can do you ( COUGH COUGH ).

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:18 50557,
Is it actually used for anything by people who aren't conlang geeks?  
I believe I said that Logan and Lojban are languages, just that they aren't 
exactly learner or user friendly and they didn't generate a user base   
I consider all languages, natural or other, that are capable of a reasonable 
level of communication among people are equal..  There is no "best" language 
though there are lots of bad or, at least, failed conlang projects.  Thousands 
of them. 
One of the best things about Esperanto was that it was, from the start, 
intended a an inter-communications language, not as a replacement for any first 

Lucille Francois
Sat Sep  3 13:19:19 50557,
This is possibly the best comment chain to show off when someone needs an 
example of linguistic prescriptivism gone horribly wrong. Just cause Esperanto 
has a larger community than other conlangs doesn't mean it's the best, or the 
most important. And someone not being fluent in a conlang doesn't mean they 
can't be critical of them. That's not how criticism works at all. Of course he 
is fluent in a conlang though, but let's ignore that cause Toki Pona is a joke 
or something. This guys subjective opinion isn't wrong just cause Esperanto is 
slowly going lower and lower on his list. It just means that you like a 
language more than him.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:20 50557,
Actually, it's a good example of a bunch of silly people who don't understand 
that a. languages are meant for communication, b. in conlangs, it's the 
languages that people choose to learn and use that win.  And that monoglots 
generally don't know what they're talking about, I will include those who take 
up the play language Toki Pona and believe it can do what it obviously can't 
Now, complain how long it's gone on as you add more to it.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:21 50557,
Objection, the last time someone mentioned the length of the chain was you 
yourself. "Not as long as people keep it going.  If no one had answered me it 
would have been over three months ago with my first comment." You are the only 
one left who is actively replying and still directly complaining about how long 
it's going. Everyone else has moved past that by now.

You Safar
Sat Sep  3 13:19:23 50557,
I was thinking a while ago that Anthony is that annoying stoner kid in high 
school who always went on about how (insert shitty stereotypical drug album 
here) was the best album ever because of how popular and well known it was, to 
the extent that they never wanted to listen to anything new, and reduced any 
new music to a shallow comparison to (insert album). You're just sitting there 
like dude that was (insert how many generations ago) ago, and we've covered so 
much ground since then.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:24 50557,
Well, of you "stoner kid" was over seventy, didn't do drugs or drink, didn't 
talk about drug albums or ever do anything else like you mentioned, yeah, I can 
see why you'd think that.
Silly boys, don't you have languages to invent, people to not get to use them?

Sat Sep  3 13:19:25 50557,
I have a confession to make.
Ever since two months ago, I have been holding Anthony McCarthy at gunpoint and 
forcing him to respond to any new comments appearing on this thread. I thought 
it could be the greatest practical joke ever invented, but I have come to 
regret this decision, as me and Anthony both have now squandered countless 
hours of our tragically limited lives carrying on an argument that has no 
relevance to anyone on earth, and is ultimately completely pointless. Anthony 
ran out of new things to say even before I tracked him down using Facebook and 
my dad's credit card and put a gun to his head forcing him to respond to every 
menial and hollow argument with his own empty thoughtless answer. If it were 
not for someone literally holding a gun to his head, threatening to end his 
only life on this earth, Antony would have no reason or desire to continue this 
asinine discussion unless he was completely hopelessly mentally insane, or 
maybe just terribly lonely. Now that I have returned to my own life and finally 
let Anthony return to his family and his job as a teacher, there will no longer 
be any need to continue this pointless hopeless bickering. My sincere apology 
to anyone who has been affected by my actions. Now we can all return to our 
lives as they were before this ever happened. 
I think we all can take away a valuable lesson from this, which is that you 
always have the choice to not respond to a youtube comment. As Anthony has 
pointed out an exhausting number of times in the closest thing to a cry for 
help that I would allow him to write without blowing his brains out, if nobody 
had responded to him, he would never have been literally forced at gunpoint to 
write an almost all the way thought out retort between one and three 
paragraphs, lest he be killed instantly by a giant gun pointed at his head at 
all times. 
I wish you all good luck in your future endeavors, whatever language, real or 
invented, they may take place in. Tomorrow I will turn myself in to the 
Goodbye forever
- Seth Raptor
P.S. Sorry Mitch.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:26 50557,
Even stupider than most of the other comments here and that's saying something. 
 I've never been on Facebook. 
I think Esperantists and other people who are interested in using a language 
instead of pretending to make them up just leave this bogus conlang stuff to 
the kiddies.

You Safar
Sat Sep  3 13:19:28 50557,
it's okay Anthony, you're free! You can stop!

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:29 50557,
You're right I am.  I wonder how you'd say that in Toki pona and if someone who 
didn't know what you meant would understand it.  My guess is no.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:30 50557,
Anthony, are you actually insane now? Do you have some sort of Stockholm 
Syndrome? He's not going to kill you, you have no reason to continue anymore! 
Do you need me to call a therapist? I know how hard it was, do you want to talk 
about it?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:32 50557,
Hey, I'd forgotten all about this till I saw the notification that someone had 
flapped their fingers at me.  It amused me to answer it. 
Compared to inventing "languages" in ridiculous, unused alphabet projects and 
ridiculous "languages" of 120 words that don't say much of anything that's 

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:33 50557,
Oh my god, it is Stockholm Syndrome! You think this is fun? Jesus Christ, 
sethraptor, you've completely broken him!
Don't worry, Anthony, professionals are on the way! We can help you!

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:19:34 50557,
I don't think you know what "Stockholm Syndrome" means anymore than you know 
what phenomenology means.   Which is an irony when the topic is language though 
one I'm sure you won't get, probably not knowing what "irony" means, either

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:19:35 50557,
great improv skills anthony way to say yes

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:19:36 50557,
Anthony McCarthy
Shh, shh, it's okay, tell us all about it, you can trust us...

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:28 50557,
Great way to, again, confirm my original comment in this thread. 
Admit it, this is the most excitement any of your youtubes has ever caused and 
you're thrilled by it.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:29 50557,
But he does have Stockholm Syndrome! Well, on an abstract level. See, 
sethraptor was his physical captor (Rhyme not intended), but what truly kept 
him hostage was his task to continue replying to this thread endlessly. Sure, 
it wasn't as obvious before, with his aggressor making it clear how he would be 
punished and making it unethical to assume that he didn't want to stop; but now 
with physical freedom, Anthony is still partaking in and even romanticizing 
this argument! Just as the traditional Stockholm Syndrome sufferer develops 
feelings of safety, normalcy, and even love for their assailant, our poor 
nonconsensual comment warrior has grown to associate this utter torture of 
discourse with joy and entertainment!
I understand trying to use more accurate labels, and PT+OCD does fit this case 
pretty well, but the point is that he has deluded himself past self-help. And 
regardless of the exact wording we use, we're still arguing semantics when we 
should be helping this man avoid succumbing to complete insanity!
Anthony, I know you're reading this, can you please try to understand that what 
you're doing is not fun? We need to acknowledge this first before anything 
else; you have not enjoyed this, are not enjoying this, and will not ever enjoy 
this. This isn't normal! Please, return to functional society! I am begging you!

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:30 50557,
I can imagine you could translate some lines from really bad Tarzan movies into 
it.  I would like to know why it was invented and what kind of "user base" it 
has generated and what use they make of it.  Other than that, I don't know.   
I'd like to see someone translate that first sentence in this comment into it, 
doing a word by word retranslation back into English.  How would you say "I can 
imagine" in the language, what with no pronouns or verbs.  I can imagine trying 
to express the second person plural or, in fact, any large plural class would 
get rather involved.  
I can assure you I feel no stress, no trauma and no OCD in this.  I've left it 
for weeks at a time before I noticed the little bell in the upper corner of the 
screen said there were responses to things I'd said.   It was an exercise in 
testing how silly some of Youtube's, um.... "intellectuals" were.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:32 50557,
What does "Stockholm Syndrome on an abstract level" mean?  
You get sillier with every comment.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:33 50557,
But you yourself are one of those silly intellectuals, considering that you're 
still compulsively replying to every new comment and taking joy in it.
I'm sorry, but I can't really help you unless you admit that you aren't 
enjoying this. Until then, I'll still be here. I know you can do it!

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:35 50557,
You say as you reply to what I said. 
I do have to note that it's really funny how you guys whine about how long this 
has been going on, making it go on longer to whine about how long it's getting. 
 I think I said something about your projects reminding me of the Society for 
Putting Things On Top Of Other Things. 
I'm finding this mildly amusing, that's as far as it goes at this point.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:36 50557,
"Objection, the last time someone mentioned the length of the chain was you 
yourself. "Not as long as people keep it going.  If no one had answered me it 
would have been over three months ago with my first comment." You are the only 
one left who is actively replying and still directly complaining about how long 
it's going. Everyone else has moved past that by now."
     -Me, one month ago
"Objection, the last time someone mentioned the length of the chain was you 
yourself. "Not as long as people keep it going.  If no one had answered me it 
would have been over three months ago with my first comment." You are the only 
one left who is actively replying and still directly complaining about how long 
it's going. Everyone else has moved past that by now."
     -Me, again right now

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:37 50557,
I think you've watched too much Perry Mason.  Only he was careful to get his 
facts lined up.  I was answering the whiny objection to my answering people who 
answered me.  
I think you have got to be the silliest people other than Alex Jones fans.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:39 50557,
Who's Perry Mason and why is he relevant?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:40 50557,
Try google.  And if upon finding out who Perry Mason is and don't understand 
the relevance to your comment, that wouldn't surprise me.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:41 50557,
I had actually looked him up before I even made the comment. Again, who is 
Perry Mason and why is he relevant?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:43 50557,
It was his use of the word "objection" and I meant it as a joke.  
I wonder if someone could get that meaning from your translation if they didn't 
know what the original sentence said.
I wonder why anyone would attempt to construct such a language except as an 
experiment in seeing to what extent the most common of grammatical categories 
are essential to communication.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:44 50557,
So he said objection a lot? So he's basically just Phoenix Wright? Wait, but 
you're calling him Perry Mason... and it's still irrelevant! Oh my god, your 
memory is starting to deteriorate! This is horrible; I've never seen somebody 
fall so deep into Stockholm Syndrome, PTSD, and OCD! We can help you! Please 
fight it, try to stabilize your consciousness!
Also why is he relevant?

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:45 50557,
Also why is he relevant?

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:46 50557,
AlsNo why is he relOevant?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:31:48 50557,
Ramanuj, toki pona has the pretty obvious advantage of being rediculously easy 
to learn. even someone who doesn't think it counts as a language can see that.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:49 50557,
Any list of 120 words is "ridiculously easy to learn" as compared to a real 
language, that doesn't mean that list can function as a full language.  Even 
the inventor of Toki Pona didn't claim that it could deal with more than very 
simple ideas.  Well, if you want a good example of what happens when you 
conduct your affairs on the basis of very simple ideas, look at the United 
States under Trump.   I would love to see someone do a mark up of the "Graham 
Cassidy" atrocity that is going through the Senate right now on the basis of a 
language that doesn't even have a means of expressing large numbers, 
unambiguously without exceeding the limitations of the language. 
Your claims for Toki Pona don't match those of the woman who made it.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:31:50 50557,
see, this guy gets it (also hey anthony what claims are you talking about? so 
far I've just said that I like it more than I like esperanto)

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:52 50557,
That Toki Pona is a real language that can do what Esperanto or any other real 
language can.  It's not a language, it's a game,  I'd say that it's the 
equivalent of pig-latin or ubbi-dubbi but those are, actually, able to 
communicate ideas because they use standard English.  
Anyone who claims that TP is an actual language that can do what a real 
language can is a silly billy.  Not even Sonja Lang would claim that.   Or at 
least she hadn't the last time I bothered to look.  As I recall it, the TP 
facebook page uses mostly English to talk about Toki Pona and it has a couple 
of thousand "friends" the one that tries to talk in only TP has a few hundred.  
I'd love to see them discuss something complex and abstract. Or try to.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:31:53 50557,
"Toki Pona is a language that breaks down advanced ideas to their most basic 
elements." -Toki Pona: The Language of Good, page 9
guess Sonja Lang is a silly billy, huh
side note: "silly billy" is hands down the funniest way you could ever insult 

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:31:54 50557,
If by "most basic elements" in a vocabulary of 120 words means "vague 
generality" it's accurate.  If it is supposed to mean expressing its meaning 
then, yes, she is a silly billy.    If you think think "silly billy" is the 
funniest I can be you should read some of the comments I made above.  
Which other conlangs do you actually know? I mean "know" as in could actually 
talk about something in.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:31:55 50557,
I was making fun of you, ya dingus. calling someone a "silly billy" makes you 
sound like you're from the twentieth century. oh wait nevermind

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:31:57 50557,
Nobody here is saying that Toki Pona is advanced but you, Anthony. I would say 
objection but I am too young to know why he's relevant.
(Also, not to rush, it's been far longer than usual. Do you know when we can 
expect the Zese video?)

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:08 50557,

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:10 50557,
Again with the "oh you don't know any conlangs that I like so you are unfit to 
talk on this subject".

Sat Sep  3 13:32:11 50557,
anyone in this thread smoke weed

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:13 50557,
Oh, what are you?  12?  Apparently the oldest you might be is 17, or didn't you 
do the math.  Maybe you did it with the three numbers available in Toki Pona.  
"Dingus"  my quick perusal of an online etymological dictionary says that it is 
a word from the "late 19th century: via Afrikaans from Dutch ding ‘thing.’" 
Little boys playing intellectual, that's what you guys are

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:14 50557,
It's not a matter of it being "advanced" it's a matter of it being sufficient 
as compared to real languages with sufficient vocabulary and it isn't.

Phina Ibe
Sat Sep  3 13:32:16 50557,
Jesus fuck, did you make a fool of yourself.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:17 50557,
I like the implication that I said dingus to sound like an intellectual

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:19 50557,
I hereby arbitrarily decree that a language must be as precise as Ithkuil to be 
considered sufficient for communication.
Well, would you look at that, my dearest straight-jacket connoisseur, not only 
is Toki Pona not a language, neither is any naturalistic language. Maybe 
arbitrary goal posting is a bad idea? But what do I know, I only fluently speak 
English, which is nowhere near expansive enough to compare to the soft, loving 
arms of Father Ithkuil.
(Personally, I'm not certain that everybody in this thread is sober, Andrew.)

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:21 50557,
That is an implication only in your own mind.   And that of your fan boys.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:22 50557,
Well, good luck with that.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:24 50557,
""Dingus"  my quick perusal of an online etymological dictionary says that it 
is a word from the "late 19th century: via Afrikaans from Dutch ding 
Little boys playing intellectual, that's what you guys are"
     -Literally you, not even a day ago
The implication may not have been intended, but it is right there in your 
fucking words. Jesus Christ, are you losing your eyesight along with your 

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:25 50557,
I said "playing" not "succeeding in being" or is that too complex and subtle 
for your minds honed to a blunt and non-incisive  obtuseness by TP?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:27 50557,
and I said "sound like"! wow, clarifying is fun

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:29 50557,
What the actual fuck? That was probably the most pretentious word choice I've 
ever seen. "Blunt" and "non-incisive obtuseness" mean the same thing; you just 
expended two more words consisting of 22 characters not including the spaces 
and "and" without contributing to the overall information of the sentence. Why? 
Why in the hell would you do that? Why wouldn't you just say "for your blunt 
minds limited by TP"? That's like 30 fewer characters and gives the same 
information. Is it to add emphasis? Is it to sound like a legal document? If 
the former, you're adding emphasis to what is already an ad hominem, so said 
emphasis is repetitive and unneeded. If the latter, then there's no way to deny 
that it's pretentious. Is there another reason? This seriously makes no sense.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:30 50557,
If you like it I'm surprised you don't try to get better at it.  "Sound like" 
doesn't get close to it. 
I can come up with as many insults as you'd like to provoke but it's really not 
that interesting a use of my time.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:31 50557,
What is an interesting use of your time? Surely this isn't?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:33 50557,
ok anthony you want a better clarification? here's exactly what happened:
1) you called me a silly billy
2) I said that was a funny way to insult someone, because it's really pathetic
3) you thought my comment was complimenting your wit or whatever
4) I called you a dingus
5) you called me and alex silly boys playing intellectual
6) I pointed out that your phrasing made it sound kinda like you thought 
"dingus" was the sort of thing a fake intellectual would say
7) you clarified that that was not your original intention
8) alex restated that it really sounded like that's what you were saying
9) you thought they were saying that I succeeded in sounding like an 
intellectual by saying "dingus"? I guess?
I'm not actually sure what you meant by that particular comment but I think 
I've clarified my side of this conversation. please let me know if there's 
anything else you're confused about.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:34 50557,
oh also somewhere in there you implied that I would forget what century I grew 
up in AND that knowing how long ago the year 2000 was counts as doing math

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:36 50557,
There's a common English phrase for what you're doing, "grasping at straws".   
How do you say that in Toki Pona?
I have to say, I've seldom been so discouraged with the products of the recent 
decades in education as this discussion has left me.
Esperantists, even Idoists should ignore the current "conlang" scene because it 
has just gotten too silly.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:37 50557,
if Esperanto has an idiom with the same meaning as "grasping at straws" I'm 
very impressed. also what the entire heck are you talking about

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:39 50557,
While you could say it any number of ways in Esperanto, the common one is 
alrocxi sin al -ero.  I confirmed that in Peter Benson's Comprehensive English 
Esperanto Dictionary. 
And if you don't understand what I said, I'm a lot less surprised at that then 
I was the first time I found this channel.   Who would have ever guessed that 
someone might think language was about communication?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:32:41 50557,
hey anthony I understand WHAT you're saying I just have no idea why you're 
saying it. what point are you trying to get across? I get that you think toki 
pona isn't a real language because it's too good at being simple, but are you 
also saying that esperantists, who arguably make up the majority of the modern 
conlang community, aren't a part of the modern conlang community? are you 
saying esperanto, by far the most popular constructed language, doesn't count 
as a constructed language because it's just so much better than all the other 
ones? or maybe you're saying that esperantists just don't like making their own 
conlangs, because they all agree with you that since esperanto nailed it there 
isn't a point in making any more? you certainly have written several thousand 
words in this thread, and I've read all of them, and I'm no closer to 
understanding your viewpoint than I was when you called me a fraud for not 
mentioning esperanto radio shows in a video about ido. didn't you say you were 
a teacher? as in, a person who professionally explains things to people who 
don't know about them? please, teach me. I am but a foolish teen, after all.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:43 50557,
No, it's just the only constructed language project that has worked to attract 
a substantial user base and to persist for a hundred thirty years.  It never 
had to be 'perfect" or "flawless" it just had to do that.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:45 50557,
In language terms, a couple million people is not substantial. If all 
Esperantists lived in the US, they would be near 1% of the population. As it 
stands, less than 0.01% of the world speaks Esperanto. If we trust Wikipedia's 
"List of languages by number of native speakers" page, then Konkani, the 100th 
biggest language, has more native speakers than Esperanto has fluent (not 
necessarily native) speakers, ranking at 0.11% of the world. The only advantage 
Esperanto has is that it is known on the internet.
I know that none of these are concrete, but even taking these purely as 
estimates, Esperanto is generally less spoken than a language in India that I 
didn't even know about until now.
Did it persist? Yes. Is it more popular than Mormonism, which is older by 
another half century? No. Is it influential? Counter question, are any internet 
fads truly influential?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:47 50557,
It's a lot more substantial than 100 users and none of your non-fulfilled 
schemes are even going to get two users.  And those users come from many 
different countries which is the whole point of having a constructed language 
such as Esperanto.   The use of Esperanto was always meant as a secondary 
language of intercommunication between people who didn't share a common 
language.  People who speak Konkani would use Esperanto to communicate with 
someone in Poland, Sweden, a country in East Africa, South or North America 
with whom they don't share another common language.  To compare Esperanto to a 
national or regional language is to not get the point, at all.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:32:49 50557,
Did I call any other conlangs substantial? No, I did not. Conlanging as a whole 
is not substantial as of right now and very likely will never be. The highest 
quality broken wrench is still a broken wrench; being relatively popular and 
influential means nothing outside of our little-known hobby.
There are Esperantists worldwide? Wow, that fixes everything! Now there is 
perfect communication across all borders, never mind that very few of people 
can talk to each other internationally and are likely in the same demographic, 
you know, since they have to know what an auxlang is or be raised by someone 
who does in order to at the very least know Esperanto exists. Never mind that 
only conlangers and language enthusiasts can talk to other conlangers and 
language enthusiasts in other countries using Esperanto. Never mind that 
language enthusiasts tend to already be multilingual. It all doesn't matter 
because wow, how fucking amazing, a minority of people in one country can talk 
to an identical fucking minority in another. This excuses literally everything.
And you know, fuck those Konkanis for speaking a language in a different 
family, it's their fault for speaking an Indic language instead of a Romance, 
Germanic, Slavic, or otherwise European language. How dare they have a 
vocabulary that does not correspond to Esperanto's? This is an international 
language, and that apparently means that it retains vocabulary and grammar from 
the only languages that matter: ones within a short boat or train ride from 
Poland. That's international enough for the average auxlang enthusiast, so the 
rest of the world just needs to suck it up and learn this bafflingly easy 
language like the rest of us. You speak Mandarin, an extremely isolating 
language with no European cognates other than modern loanwords? Doesn't matter, 
and don't complain that Esperanto is fusional because it's just so damn easy 
and international.
"To compare Esperanto to a national or regional language is to not get the 
point, at all."
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that Esperanto isn't actually a language, I'm sorry for 
comparing it to languages, it's obviously in its own untouchable category. Just 
because it has words and a grammar doesn't mean it's a real language, therefore 
we are not allowed to treat it like a natural language, even if people consider 
it a "living language". It is simply a word game between European polyglots, 
except that it's not even a fun word game like the literally demonic Toki Pona.
There, are you happy now? To escape criticism, your language is now in the same 
category as Toki Pona, which is something that you don't take seriously in the 
slightest. Is that what you wanted?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:32:51 50557,
Many Esperantists don't have a European language as their first language.  
There are substantial numbers of users in China and Japan,  including some of 
its most significant authors.  
Konkani is an Indo-European language, it is grammatically similar to Sanskritic 
languages.  There are more than a few Esperantists in India, as well. 
You guys should get together and invent Sillibillian.   Use the Shavian 
alphabet, which I bet none of you can actually read, not even English written 
in it.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:43:26 50557,
That is the most in-depth deconstruction I've seen of any argument on all of 
YouTube. Congratulations. I'm going to sit back and see if anyone else comes in 
and makes this less stale.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:27 50557,
Oh, for crying out loud.  You guys say stupid stuff, I notice the little bell 
in the corner of Youtube is red, I knock it down.  None of it is hard.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:43:28 50557,
Do you want an award? You sound like you do.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:30 50557,
I can conceive of no honor that you boys could come up with that I'd want.

Strike Ecozzocn
Sat Sep  3 13:43:31 50557,
Anthony McCarthy this is the longest thread I have ever seen. While I don’t 
speak toki pona I admire it for what it does.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:43:32 50557,
Strike Esozzocn
I highly recommend that you read the entirety of the thread. Sarkar is right; 
it is beautiful.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:34 50557,
What does it do?  I mean, what does it really do, not what do people claim that 
it does.  I would be curious to know what Sonja Lang does with it, though I 
don't seem to be able to find that out.  I have read that when she translated 
part of the Taoist literature it was into Esperanto, not Toki Pona, though 
perhaps that's old information.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:35 50557,
the most important thing toki pona achieves, imo, is learnability. 
additionally, the tiny vocabulary makes it so that in order to say most things, 
you need to define what they are. this is admittedly less convenient than the 
traditional "just have a word for everything" approach, but it makes it so that 
you can't talk about anything in toki pona if you don't understand what it is. 
this might not sound like an admirable goal to many people, and I get that, but 
I personally think it's incredible. the only restriction on what you can say is 
your own understanding, rather than gaps in the vocabulary itself. (unless you 
wanna talk about math because that's basically impossible)

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:36 50557,
Why not reduce the vocabulary to 60 words, then?  If you already understand 
what's being said why say it?   What you are saying in this shows what I 
originally said, that your conception of conlangs is just plain silly.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:37 50557,
no, see, it's not that the LISTENER can only understand what they already 
understood; it's that the SPEAKER can only say what they understand. for 
example, you can't say "radio" if you were born in 1998 and don't know what a 
radio is sorry, but if someone says "ilo pi pali kalama kepeken sona walo", 
even if you personally don't know what a radio is, you can figure out that 
they're talking about a device that creates sound using information that's made 
of light. of course, that's rather cumbersome to actually say, so in practice 
you'd usually say something like "ilo pi kalama walo" or just "ilo kalama", 
both of which are less specific but get the general idea of a radio across.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:39 50557,
I know people who were born after 1998 who aren't so stupid they don't know 
what a radio is.  I can't account for why you wouldn't have.  Maybe you don't 
have a very big vocabulary in English. 
Can you get any sillier?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:40 50557,
it was a callback you goof

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:41 50557,
something like "nasin sona sijelo" I guess? I don't think I've ever said the 
word phenomenology in english so to be completely honest the answer is that I 
wouldn't say it

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:43 50557,
I'm sorry for not responding to your questions it's just that anthony was out 
here saying much funnier things

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:44 50557,
yeah sure go for it

Sat Sep  3 13:43:45 50557,
holy crap, Anthony is still replying? It is so embarrassing for him, I would 
delete the comment after FO translated moby dick, but the thread continued!

Sat Sep  3 13:43:47 50557,
also TWO THIRDS of comments on this video are on this comment...

Phina Ibe
Sat Sep  3 13:43:48 50557,

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:43:49 50557,
Actually no, please don't. This should be a national monument or something.

Phina Ibe
Sat Sep  3 13:43:51 50557,
Alex Hayes Look what Mcguy said, this comment contains 2/3 of the Comments on 
this vid.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:52 50557,
How odd, I don't feel embarrassed at all.   Where's the translation of Moby 
Dick?  Do you mean the "translation" of the first chapter of Gerda Malaperis 
which I pointed out was no translation at all but a vague indication, something 
in line with Woody Allen's joke about speed reading, "reading" War and Peace in 
20 minutes, "It's about Russia".   
Obviously you don't know anything about toki pona, even less than the silly 
people here who do know a tiny bit about it. 
Oddly, I don't expect such silly people as many who engaged me in this thread 
to feel embarrassment over not knowing stuff they were pretending to, of 
pretending that Toki pona is a real language capable of doing complex 
communication when its inventor said that was not her purpose and she designed 
the language to not be able to do that.  
Let's hear your championing of the Shavian alphabet.   I could use a laugh.

Phina Ibe
Sat Sep  3 13:43:53 50557,
Anthony McCarthy I can't believe that Misali hasn't blocked you yet.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:55 50557,
Why?  Because he's gotten lots of comments on one of his videos?  Surely a 
desideratum of any vlogger.   If he did it wouldn't bother me in any way,.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:56 50557,

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:43:57 50557,
I'll have to admit I didn't take much time with that comment.   "Poseur" more 
to your liking?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:43:59 50557,
hey anthony, I suppose you think that's cute

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:00 50557,
Oh, does that impress you?   Among the people I know it's just another word.    
French is my first second language, I use it just about every day.  I grew up 
among French Canadians from Quebec and Arcadie.   So I know what it's like to 
learn a real second language, not a play one.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:01 50557,
Geesh, thin skinned, much?

Sat Sep  3 13:44:02 50557,
mr. mccarthy is that you

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:44:04 50557,
look, anthony, we've had fun here for the past few months but I wanna get real 
for a second. with no jokes, here's my understanding of your argument, in no 
particular order
1) toki pona doesn't count as a language because there isn't a significant body 
of works written in it
2) esperanto is like, really good
3) people who use fancy words are smarter than people who try to make 
themselves understood
4) this comment thread has gone on for too long but if it certainly isn't YOUR 
5) I don't speak esperanto which means I'm a faker of some sort
as I'm sure you know, I disagree with basically all of those points. however, 
you haven't really done that good of a job communicating your stance, so I'm 
certain I've misinterpreted your views in some way. if we ever wanna have a 
meaningful discussion, which we might not wanna do because throwing 
ridiculously mild insults back and forth is much more fun, it would be best if 
you go ahead and clarify how much of this is actually what you're trying to say.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:05 50557,
OK, -  T. P. isn't a real language because it can't function as a real language 
does, express a vast range of ideas to other people who don't already know 
those ideas, communicate needs, desires, etc. with the same level of 
specificity and accuracy that real languages do. 
-  Esperanto can do that as by the way, Ido can too.  So can most natural 
languages, especially those which have or can adopt vocabulary to cover things 
not already part of that language,  T P, stuck at a corpus of 120 words, can't 
do that.  The number of works written in the language is immaterial to it being 
a real language, though it can make learning it more rewarding 
- I'm not the one who brought terms like "phenomenology" or "Shavian" or many 
others into this.  I don't have any problem with people who can communicate 
ideas accurately and effectively with a smaller vocabulary, In Esperanto I 
favor the same approach that Claude Piron did, which favors the use of a 
smaller vocabulary for maximum clarity, but one big enough to do that.   
However, I don't see any reason to not use a word if it's part of a language.  
- I'm not the one who has been whining about the length of this discussion. - I 
don't think you know what you're talking about, sometimes, though there are 
others in this discussion who really don't know what they're talking about.  
It's good to know things. Better than not knowing them.  Language can be useful 
for that if it can express ideas clearly.   It's not just some kind of game or 
hobby, there are important things to do.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:44:06 50557,
thank you! see, now I understand you much better and can actually talk about 
where we disagree.
-  "it can't... express a vast range of ideas to other people who don't already 
know those ideas" I'd actually argue that the opposite is true! it's 
specifically impossible to talk about anything WITHOUT explaining what it is to 
whoever you're talking to.
- yes, toki pona only has 120 words. that doesn't mean that there's only 120 
things you can say. just like in esperanto, words can be combined together in 
regular ways to form new ideas; it's just done through word order rather than 
through affixes.
- I see no reason to use a word if another word gets the same idea across more 
- "Not as long as people keep it going.  If no one had answered me it would 
have been over three months ago with my first comment." -you, two months ago, 
in response to "is it over?". this is pretty clearly saying that you don't 
think it's your fault that the thread is so long, but the fact that you're even 
blaming anyone about it means that you, on some level, wish it hadn't lasted as 
long as it has
- ok I know that that last point is in response to my last point but it's still 
the most confusing part of your argument. the closest thing to like an actual 
insult you've said about me is calling me a fake... something? like you've 
called me a fraud and a poser (sorry, "poseur") but what exactly am I 
pretending to be? a linguistics educator? I specifically call conlang critic a 
"show that gets facts wrong" so that can't be it. a polyglot? I've avoided 
answering the "how many languages do you speak" question mostly because, as is 
pretty clear, the answer depends on what counts as a language and on what 
counts as speaking. but importantly I've never claimed to speak any languages 
other than english and toki pona, the two languages I'm most confidant in. I 
do, in fact, have passing familiarity with several languages, conlangs 
especially, but I've never been in an environment where speaking a language 
other than english was necessary, or even a viable option. no, I couldn't live 
in what I know of german, not because I don't know how to speak german (I did 
study it for years, after all) but because literally nobody who lives where I 
live speaks german so using german just wouldn't be practical.
- oops there's a subpoint to your last point! are you trying to say that having 
fun with languages isn't allowed? like anyone who enjoys linguistics or 
conlanging just should stop? I sure hope that's not what you're trying to say 
because wow that sounds like the most boring thing you could possibly care 
about. oh no people are having too much fun! the horror! idk maybe I'm reading 
to far into things

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:44:07 50557,
probably not, since I've only had experience with the language in an academic 

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:09 50557,
Who said that having fun with language isn't allowed, I didn't.  I said there 
was more to it than playing games and having a hobby of inventing "languages" 
and talking about languages that you have not and never will get around to 
Toki Pona cannot express a full range of ideas.  How would you say, "the square 
root of fifty seven" in Toki Pona?  How would you say "pi times the radius of a 
circle squared"?  How would you say "all people are created equal and have an 
equal right to the due process of the law?"   I will bet you that just about 
any joke you can laugh at in English can't be translated into it so that you 
could get a laugh out of another TP user.  
The creator of the language certainly didn't assert that her invention could be 
used to express all ideas that can be expressed in natural language, she said 
you could only use it talk about very simple things, that is unless she lost 
her mind and started making claims of that sort.  
I think my original comment on this video is more true than I did when I made 

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:44:10 50557,
ok so you were talking about one specific type of fun. that's... better?
no, toki pona can't talk about math. that's not what it was designed for, and 
if you want to talk about math, toki pona is not the language to do it in. it 
also won't be able to translate humor, but humor is pretty untranslatable in 
general. most of the jokes I'd laugh at are puns, and english puns won't work 
in tp and tp puns won't work in english. that's just how jokes work! however 
you did give a specific example which I am now obligated to translate:
original: "all people are created equal and have an equal right to the due 
process of the law."
translated: "jan ale li sama li jo e ken sama pi pali lipu lawa."
back translated: "every person is equal and has the same abilities with regards 
to the law's (literally "controlling document") actions."
this doesn't capture all the nuance of the original statement, but you can't 
deny that it gets the idea across. oh and as a cool bonus it actually is more 
efficient to say that than the english phrase! neat.
I've already quoted jan sonja saying that it was designed to be able to express 
anything USING simple ideas. like just scroll up the quote is right there. the 
point is that it's possible to say anything by breaking it down to the simple 
ideas that it's made of.

ok uh, your original comment? are we talking about the same comment here? the 
one that goes, ahem,

"You have got to be about the most superficial commentator on con-langues since 
the idiotic B. Gilson.   
Did I miss the one where you said which conlang you're fluent in and read at 
least three times a week and can read new books in every week of even one year 
or listen to radio shows in every week?   New radio shows?"

the one where you follow up a mostly legitimate criticism of my videos (I don't 
go nearly as deep as a should and most of the stuff I talk about is super 
basic) by misspelling a word that's in the title of the video the comment was 
left on then insulting some guy I had no reason to have heard of before? (he 
does an esperanto podcast I think?)

I just wanna make sure we're both talking about the comment where you have a 
paragraph break after one sentence and then proceed to show that you did, in 
fact, miss the one where I said which conlang I'm fluent in (episode twelve) 
and then go on to list some things that basically only apply to esperanto, 
(literally the only conlang where new books are published in it weekly) and 
then wrap the whole thing up with three entire spaces in a row and the 
assertion that radio shows are something literally anyone in the year 2017 
cares about?

this is the comment where I replied simply by copy pasting the last sentence, 
which, in isolation, sounded pretty funny, and then you proceeded to go on 
about how surprising it is that I didn't mention esperanto radio shows in a 
video that isn't about esperanto. this was the comment that prompted me to 
point out how radios aren't a thing anyone my age (I'm 19 years old!) cares 
about which for some reason prompted you to say literally the funniest thing 
anyone has ever said to me.

anthony, this is the comment I scroll past every time I reply to a comment in 
this thread and I've read it so many times it's imprinted in my brain. its 
exact cadence has impacted my speech irreversibly. this is the comment that 
started a thread that inspired me to make a dumb homestuck joke remix and post 
it on my channel for thousands of actual people to see and be confused by.

so, maybe you still do think I'm about the most superficial commentator on 
con-languages since the idiotic B. Gilson, and maybe you did miss the one where 
I said which conlang I'm fluent in and read at least three times a week and can 
read new books in every week of even one year or listen to radio shows in every 
week new radio shows. anthony, I suppose you think that's the truth.   what it 
makes you is a fraud.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:44:11 50557,
Akira was some random libertarian that started spamming about how the left is 
bad or something. I don't remember anymore, and I'm not rereading all of these 
400 comments to find out by context.

Cax Attacks
Sat Sep  3 13:44:13 50557,
Conlang Critic I bet you can't even translate everything ever written into toki 
pona.    I bet you can't communicate with foxes in toki pona.    Only real 
languages can communicate with foxes.   Have foxes read Moby Dick?    Only real 
languages have read Moby Dick.  
  Foxes are serious business and only they can communicate in the UN. 
Foxes aren't very good at math though so I guess they're not a real language 

Sat Sep  3 13:44:24 50557,
Just joining in on this glorious piece of history.
A bit late tho...

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:44:26 50557,
It's already been half a year; there is no end in sight. Long live the thread!

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:27 50557,
I'm not sure of a word that means - "someone making believe someone said 
something really stupid when the person making believe they did was the only 
one saying it" -  but there really needs to be one because it's one of the most 
common means of mischaracterizing what was said online.  That wasn't done 
nearly as often in print.  I don't know if that's because there are so many 
more silly people typing stuff out online or if it was just harder to get away 
with among people who read books.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:28 50557,
I am, though, confident you couldn't say that in Toki Pona.

Cax Attacks
Sat Sep  3 13:44:30 50557,
I mean you didn't express the concept of "someone making believe someone said 
something really stupid when the person making believe they did was the only 
one saying it" well in english either so I guess it's a fake language that has 
no value and is just a game too. Also I like how you imply that the set of 
people who use the internet and the set of people who read books is a vastly 
different set and has no significant overlap. I like how you imply that books 
are the only kind of valid written literature.
The other thing that I can't seem to fathom is why you feel that in order to 
like Esperanto, you have to put down all other conlangs. There's plenty of 
conlangs out there that are great. Toki Pona is cool and has an interesting 
concept. Some conlangs exist for artistic purposes or to push the boundaries of 
what it is to be a language. Some exist to facilitate story telling and world 
building. Some exist to try to find new ways to communicate with many people.
The fact that Esperanto has native speakers does not mean it is more valid than 
others. The fact that it has enough users that it has books written in it 
semi-consistently doesn't make it more valid. Popularity does not equal ease of 
communication or how good something is. English is used by many many people, 
but that doesn't mean it's the best language and that others aren't valid.
It's okay to feel a bit sad that other people don't like a thing you love, but 
that doesn't make it okay to try to invalidate other people's opinions or the 
things that they like. I'm sorry you feel bad, please don't be afraid to ask 
for help from people you care about and who care about you.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:31 50557,
The only criticisms I made of Ido was that that it hasn't established a stable 
form and it hasn't attracted a large, continuing number of users.  The only 
criticisms I made of loglan-logban were that it wasn't user friendly and that 
it was based on a bogus linguistics theory from the 1930s that just about no 
real linguists ever bought or believe in now.   Novial, I only pointed out that 
Gilson's project to "perfect" it began and died c. 1998.  My criticisms of Toki 
Pona are many and I stated all of them many times.  Of those only TP is defined 
in a way that means it will never and could never be a real language on the 
same level as a natural language or a real invented language.  
I don't recall talking about the small number of native speakers of Esperanto, 
where did I give that as a criterion of why it is what no other of the 
languages under discussion is, an actual language of at least every week, if 
not everyday use of many, many people in many, many countries.   
People have every right to hold their opinions and other people have a right to 
criticize those opinions on the basis of their coherence, their fidelity to 
facts and logic and reality.   If someones opinions can't stand up to that then 
their attachments to their opinion aren't based on coherence, fidelity to 
facts, logic or reality.  There's a lot of that going around online.  It's what 
destroyed American democracy.

Cax Attacks
Sat Sep  3 13:44:32 50557,
See the thing is, though, that Toki Pona does exactly what it's set out to do 
and is still a real language. Since there seems to be a definition issue, could 
you please create a list of requirements to be a language? I'm really curious 
as to how you would define a "real" language
Also if you want to get into political talk, if you think that the internet is 
the reason that American Democracy isn't functioning then you're just plain 
wrong. It's been fucked up since its creation and only ever barely functioned.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:34 50557,
A real language has to enable the people using it to conduct their everyday 
life and fulfill their reasonable requirements for communication or it is not a 
real language, it is an inadequate code or a game.  
What the inventor of Toki Pona intended it to do was to communicate "very 
simple" ideas.  If you want to conduct your life on the level that Toki Pona 
would enable you to other people would be entirely justified in thinking you 
were simple minded.   The same would be true if you tried to conduct your life 
with 120 words of English or French or Esperanto (though about 1200 would serve 
you extremely well due to its word creation capability)  or any other language. 
 Basic English with its vocabulary of about seven times the size of Toki Pona 
doesn't work very well but it might just barely count as a real language,  
Special English from Voice of America is notably more successful though I 
wouldn't want to have to limit myself to it.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:35 50557,
I didn't blame the internet for the problem that has led to the downfall of 
American Democracy but to the dumbing down and lack of integrity that is merely 
exposed by the internet.  See, that's the kind of subtle distinction that was 
contained in my comment:
People have every right to hold their opinions and other people have a right to 
criticize those opinions on the basis of their coherence, their fidelity to 
facts and logic and reality.   If someones opinions can't stand up to that then 
their attachments to their opinion aren't based on coherence, fidelity to 
facts, logic or reality.  There's a lot of that going around online.  It's what 
destroyed American democracy.
It's going around online but it comes from a more general dumbing down of 
American thought, and that comes mostly from TV, movies, radio, video games, 
etc.  But people who have been so dumbed down often can type out nonsense 
online.  Or is that too subtle for a Toki Ponist to be able to grasp, which 
wouldn't surprise me, one bit.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:44:36 50557,
hi anthony! it’s great hearing from you again. I have a few things to say in 
response to your points:
- “someone making believe someone said something really stupid when the 
person making believe they did was the only one saying it” is called 
“projecting”. in toki pona, I’d call it something like “toki nasa”, 
which isn’t as precise as the exact english definition, but it sure is easier 
to say, and speaking precisely isn’t the point of toki pona. why should you 
expect it to be able to perfectly and conveniently translate a concept you 
didn’t even know the english word for?
- you don’t like Ido because it failed to be popular? that’s a pretty 
boring reason to dislike something.
- your definition of “real language” excludes classical greek! wow
- you sure don’t know what toki pona is trying to do, huh? it’s not trying 
to make it so you can only say simple things, it’s trying to encourage you to 
explain complicated concepts. the only limits are your own understanding of 
what you’re talking about, and the amount of detail you’re willing to go 
into. direct quote from sonja lang: “Toki Pona offers a path for semantic 
reduction. Just as we can rewrite a mathematical fraction like 4/8 as 1/2, we 
can distill our thoughts to their most fundamental units to discover what 
things really mean. We can understand complex ideas in terms of their smaller 
parts.” (that’s from page 10 of Toki Pona: The Language of Good)
- “It's going around online but it comes from a more general dumbing down of 
American thought, and that comes mostly from TV, movies, radio, video games, 
etc.  But people who have been so dumbed down often can type out nonsense 
online.” I don’t understand what this means. as a tokiponist, which means 
I’m just a huge idiot who doesn’t even read books probably, it’s too 
subtle for me.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:37 50557,
Where did I say  I didn't "like" Ido?  I didn't express any dislike of Ido, 
which I learned enough so I can read it.  I'll bet I can read it better than 
you can.  
Classical Greeks and many others were quite able to conduct their day to day 
lives, not to mention communicate quite well in the language.  Try translating  
Sophocles, Euripides, Plato or any of the other, many texts written into it 
into Toki Pona, I'm sure we could all use another laugh, at this point.  If it 
had the vocabulary added to it to enable it to deal with the modern world, 
classical Greek could function as a fully adequate language.  
How would Sonja Lang propose saying "4/8 is equal to the fraction 1/2" in Toki 
What's not to get about that question within the statement that if that is the 
case then it wouldn't surprise me.  
There's some reason your claims don't cohere, at times and some reason you 
can't seem to understand when that's pointed out to you.  Maybe you should 
listen to the radio more, it's more work than TV and movies, good mental 

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:44:39 50557,
ah yes let’s argue about which things you literally said and which things you 
simply implied that’s deffo a good use of our time.
can you order coffee in classical greek? if you can’t order coffee in it, 
it’s of no use to me. maybe if it had a few thousand more words, it would be 
functional enough to be a Real language, but actually it’s only a game.
“nanpa ni en nanpa ni li sama.”
“What's not to get about that question within the statement that if that is 
the case then it wouldn't surprise me.” 
hey anthony what the entire heck is a radio? where can I find such a device?

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:44:40 50557,
I nowhere implied that there was any problems with Ido apart from the two that 
I mentioned, the failure of the language to settle into a standard form and to 
attract a large body of users.   Compared to Esperanto it is more of a series 
of closely related dialects of the parent language.  I've thought it could be 
useful in Esperanto literature in rendering dialects.  
Well, if the language were supplied the vocabulary to order coffee, I'm quite 
sure it could be.  People bought and sold things in the language, I would 
imagine including food and drink.   You know, language man, that classical 
Greek turned into modern Greek, so that happened.  I can assure you, you can 
order coffee in modern Greek.  
Maybe you should try googling "radio".  Do I have to tell you what google is? 
Your radio humor is about as witty as Donald Trump's.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:54:57 50557,
okay, so yes, you’re presenting ido’s unpopularity as a reason to dislike 
it. you’re not using the word “like” because that would be too 
Subjective, but that is what you’re saying.
I’m not talking about modern greek, or a hypothetical version of classical 
greek that had modern vocabulary. I’m talking about classical greek, as it 
existed in ancient greece. that language isn’t useful for communicating in 
modern times without adding a significant amount of vocabulary, and yet 
there’s no reason not to call it a real language.
okay so I’m going to stop this “I’m too young to know what a radio is” 
goof because you’re right it’s no longer funny. here’s my actual 
response: you think it’s hard to listen to radio? like, seriously? listening 
to the radio is “work”? I don’t think I actually own a physical radio, 
but I spend a huge amount of my spare time listening to podcasts (that’s what 
replaced radio shows now that the radio is obsolete!) and it’s a far more 
passive than watching tv. it’s an audio medium instead of an audiovisual 
medium, after all. you only need to be paying attention with one of your senses 
instead of two.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:54:59 50557,
First, to say Ido is "unpopular" or to claim that's the way I presented it is 
silly.  To claim I presented "unpopularity" as a reason to dislike it is as 
absurd if not dishonest.  So your reasoning, as well as words, fails you.
English c. 1950 wouldn't suffice to discuss the full range of current 
purchasing possibilities today.  Are you claiming that means there's something 
wrong with the language in 1950 to conduct life in 1950 or that English in 2017 
is a different language?   I believe way back when one of your fan boys was 
trying to bring up other languages I noted that if they had gained the 
vocabulary to deal with modern technology and other things any of them could, 
theoretically, function as well as any other.  I haven't made any qualitative 
judgements of natural languages or languages with sufficient vocabulary and 
linguistic resources to function in real life.   If all of us knew !Xoo and it 
had been supplied with an expanded vocabulary as English or German or Mandarin 
or Arabic had, it would work as well as any other.  Though it has phonemic and 
other features that make it almost impossible for anyone but the most devoted 
specialist in the study of it to learn as a quickly acquired, easily used 
second language.  Those are things that Zamenhof took into account when he 
invented Esperanto, giving it features that make it easy to learn and use with 
total confidence - I mentioned that before, too.  Not all "conlang" inventors 
did that.  Interlingua keeps such absurdities as different conjugations of 
verbs.  Loglan hasn't proven to be either learner or user friendly, either, 
even its inventors and early enthusiasts report having not gained full fluency 
in it. 
Your memory seems to fail you as well, you're the one who pretended to not know 
what a radio was when I noted that unlike other conlangs that there were enough 
Esperanto users for a number of radio services to have programming in 
Esperanto.  That was your attempt at a lame joke, not mine.  
As to radio being a medium that requires the active use of the mind, more so 
than TV or video, I guess you don't know that because of your repeatedly 
asserted ignorance of radio.   As someone who listens to radio radio services 
in several languages, including Esperanto, you'll have to defer to my 
experience until you gain that experience.  Maybe you'd enjoy listening to 
audio drama as a bridge, the Lime Town series is a way for you to do both a the 
pod-cast is in the form of a radio documentary to tell a sort of sci-fi mystery 

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:00 50557,
The question isn't necessarily if scientists are writing papers in a language, 
it is if they could write them in it.  
I would like to know who leads a life simple enough so that 120 words which 
includes, if I recall, exactly three numbers in it.   I doubt that anyone who 
can be said to be fluent in T.P can give any kind of nuanced information to 
other fluent T.P. users if they don't already know what is being said to them.  
 As I said, it's like the old Woody Allen joke about speed reading War and 
Peace in 20 minutes, "It's about Russia".  
Esperanto was never meant to "take over the world" it was always intended to be 
a second language of inter-communication among people who didn't share another 
language.  I think it would be enormously useful if it became the accepted 
lingua franca of science and other areas of life.  It would certainly save a 
lot of time and money spent on translation or learning far less easily learned 
languages.   Its (theoretically) uniform or near uniform pronunciation is, in 
my experience, an important aspect of its suitability for that. It isn't the 
only invented language that could do that,  Ido could, if it could achieve a 
stable form, though for literary purposes the added flexibility of Esperanto is 
an added feature to attract learners and users.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 13:55:02 50557,
wait, so you’re saying !xoo isn’t a real language either? man, your 
definition of “language” sure needs some extending.
I don’t know what about “I’m going to stop this “I’m too young to 
know what a radio is” goof because you’re right it’s no longer funny” 
made it sound like I thought it was your joke? was it something in the phrasing 
that I didn’t catch, or did you just not read it properly? I’m going to be 
nice and assume it was something in the phrasing, because you’re very smart 
and read all the time.
have you ever listened to the adventure zone? it’s my favorite podcast. 
(sorry, “pod-cast”) if it were played on a radio for some reason, there’d 
be no reason not to call it a “radio drama”. the first story is about 
eighty hours long and I was laughing and or crying the whole way through. my 
mind certainly was engaged, but you know what wasn’t engaged? my eyes! I 
wasn’t looking at anything! I’d say that’s a more passive experience than 
watching a tv show of the same length, both of which are more passive than 
playing a video game of the same length. man, I’d love to start actually 
talking about different types of media and their relative engagement levels. 
can we start actually talking about different types of media and their relative 
engagement levels? that seems like it’d be a much more productive discussion 
than “is this language real”.

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:03 50557,
I didn't say anything about !Xoo that could possibly lead to someone honestly 
concluding I'd said it isn't a real language.  Obviously the language does and 
has worked to serve the people who can use it with other speakers of !Xoo in 
their daily life and their communications and with either the adoption or 
creation of neologisms providing it with words as needed, it could deal with 
anything English or Mandarin or Japanese could.  It already has more than 120 
words and isn't restricted to the limited vocabulary that Toki Pona does. It 
isn't, however, easy for people to learn as a second language so its not a good 
candidate for an inter-language or a lingua franca.  From what I've read about 
!Xoo it is quite capable of expressing deep nuance.  
I  haven't listened to Adventure Zone.  I have listened to Lime Town and it's 
very good.  I'm an enormous fan of audio theater, especially the past product 
of the CBC which, unfortunately, doesn't produce it anymore.  It's the real 
theater of imagination and new ideas because, as Rod Serling noted, it's cheap 
enough for an author to do different stuff in.   I also like Jack Black 
Justice, though that's more of a comedy.  
There are a number of new plays produced every month for radio by the BBC, RTE, 
radio in New Zealand and Australia as well a independent audio theater 
producers.  I don't know why anyone would bother with TV or Hollywood after 
they experienced it.

Hans Lee
Sat Sep  3 13:55:04 50557,
Here is my attempt to simply rebut Anthony's points:
1. You say that you cannot talk about math in Toki Pona. However, an average 
person seldom talks about elaborated maths in everyday communication. This puts 
mathematics out of Toki Pona's goal, but this fact in no way makes TP less 
valid of a language.
2. You argue that TP is incapable of translating literature, and you even gave 
examples for us. TP is a language made to communicate simply and clearly. As I 
quote from jan Misali, "it is impossible to talk about things WITHOUT 
EXPLAINING". TP cannot translate literature easily, because it is not made for 
it. TP is a language for people around the globe to learn it easily, and get 
points across when talking to others. There is no advanced vocabulary, making 
explanation obligatory. This in turn makes it possible for everyone to 
understand what you say. TP is simple, and it's meant to be.

Hans Lee
Sat Sep  3 13:55:06 50557,
Ramanuj Sarkar I suppose the creators have gone too far with simplifying the 
number system. But for my other point, TP aims for simple communication, and 
what you said has not convinced people that TP is not a good language in that 

Akira Enderle
Sat Sep  3 13:55:07 50557,
Anthony McCarthy, why on Earth are you still replying to this comment thread? 
If you are as old as you claim to be (in your seventies IIRC), then you're 
probably aware that you only have 1-2 more decades to live your life before you 
die. You are, without question, the oldest person commenting inside this 
Why the fuck would anyone waste the last years of their life arguing on the 
Internet unless they actually thought it was fun? Stop wasting your time here 
and go live the rest of your life before you die!

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:08 50557,
Oh, dear,watch what you say about that, bunky, hubris has such a way of 
catching up with people.  I might outlive you.  You might understand that if 
you read stuff.

Nathan Galler
Sat Sep  3 13:55:09 50557,
Anthony. Just stop replying... It is obvious that you we will never get any 
points through your thick ass skull. You believe that you can never be wrong 
that you have been fighting in a fucking youtube comment section for 4 fucking 
months you chimp!

Nathan Galler
Sat Sep  3 13:55:11 50557,
Also fun fact! There has been over 207,384 letters in this shit storm of a 
youtube comment string

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:12 50557,
Oh, you silly boy, if you wanted me to stop toying with you, that's about the 
stupidest way to get me to do it.

Nathan Galler
Sat Sep  3 13:55:13 50557,
LOL, stop toying with me? Do you not see how much of a fucking time waste your 
comments are? And you think im annoyed or something even tho i just posted a 

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:14 50557,
Oh, well, if that's what you think, just think of how much more of "a fucking 
waste of time" your comments on my comments are.  
You a very silly boy.

Nathan Galler
Sat Sep  3 13:55:16 50557,
Yes, this was a big fucking waste of my time trying to talk to person like you. 
But i still find it funny that you have been writing comments for over 7 months 
now and you think that im the person wasting there time :D

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:17 50557,
Ooh, and guess what, you just wasted some more of it.   Apparently you have 
more time to waste than you want to believe you do.

Nathan Galler
Sat Sep  3 13:55:18 50557,
You still don't understand you have wasted over 6 months of time writing on 
youtube comments? And so what if i waste 30 sec writing a youtube comment. 
Anyways im done commenting here since you are so stubborn and think that you 
know better then EVERYONE that you have been arguing for over 6 months about a 
fucking language

Anthony McCarthy
Sat Sep  3 13:55:19 50557,
Oh, I guess I must type faster than you do.  Or think faster because I doubt 
I've spent two hours writing these comments, I'd be surprised if it took me a 
hour and a half, most of that time looking up stupid stuff that you conlang 
rangers brought up like the Shavian alphabet and to check on the date of the 
death of Edmund Husserl.  
You boys aren't very swift, I guess.  Maybe if you read more.

c a t
Sat Sep  3 13:55:21 50557,
Talk about a following, this Rick and Morty fan over here be showing off with 
his radio shows in Esperanto. Oooo. Remember, its not a real language if it 
doesn't have tssisssciiii.

Aj Rollo
Sat Sep  3 13:55:22 50557,
I don't know why I have done this, but I've actually spent the last while 
translating "Moby Dick" into Toki Pona. My first draft is here -   - any comments or criticisms are quite welcome.

Sat Sep  3 13:55:23 50557,
Hi guys, I'm new to the party.
This really has been a fascinating read, so much so that I felt compelled to 
comment (although, I can't say I relish the idea of this thread pinging my 
notifications for the foreseeable future but never mind).
My favourite part is that Anthony clearly think he is winning this little 
argument. I don't know why he can't just accept that people disagree with him, 
instead of slowly undermining his own intellect with petty retorts and smug 
arrogance. Do carry on!

Square Zack
Sat Sep  3 13:55:24 50557,
What does "commentator" even mean?

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sat Sep  3 13:55:26 50557,
Wow. This thread lasted longer than I thought it would. The last time I was 
here was like from 5 months ago.

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Sat Sep  3 13:55:27 50557,
I was expecting more but.... meh.

Federico Volpe
Sat Sep  3 13:55:28 50557,
Anthony McCarthy Sir, you're completely right!

Luna Hoshi
Sat Sep  3 13:55:29 50557,
I think this thread is absolutely idiotic. Not just on Anthony's part (even 
though it's mostly him), but on everyone. You have spent the past 6 months or 
so arguing about Esperanto and toki pona. I'm not saying that Anthony McCarthy 
was right in any way, I'm just pointing out that this is stupid.
(Ido realize that this is 1 month late)

Alowishus Devadander Abercrombie
Sat Sep  3 13:55:40 50557,
I bet you watch Rick and Morty

Sat Sep  3 13:55:42 50557,
Anthony McCarthy To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand 
Esperanto. The grammar is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of 
academic linguistics most of the history will go over a typical learner's head. 
There's also Zamenhof's hopeful outlook, which is deftly woven into his 
characterisation - his name literally meaning "one who hopes", for instance. 
The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly 
appreciate the depths of the language, to realize that it's not just good- it 
says something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Esperanto 
truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour 
in Zamenhof's existencial catchphrase "Saluton" which itself is a cryptic 
reference the polarising issue of Eurocentrism. I'm smirking right now just 
imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in 
confusion as Zamenhof's genius unfolds itself in their books. What fools... how 
I pity them. ?? And yes by the way, I DO have a Esperanto tattoo. And no, you 
cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to 
demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) 

Sat Sep  3 13:55:44 50557,
Shitposts out.

do the woah
Sat Sep  3 13:55:46 50557,
This whole thread by you mr.McCarthy, can be summed up in two subreddits: 
r/iamverysmart and r/gatekeepers. Just because people don't learn the language 
YOU like, doesn't mean they're "wrong." It's what makes them happy. This is 
what everyone hates about conlanging community. The vast amount of snooty 
assholes who think that Esperanto is god and that all other conlangs are 
"stupid" or "copying esperanto." Because, believe it or not, conlangs existed 
before esperanto.
* gasp * I know. Shocking.

Alex Hayes
Sat Sep  3 13:55:48 50557,
I see that we're still using the word "boy" as an insult.

Sat Sep  3 13:55:51 50557,
OOOOOKAAAAY lots to unpack here
Firstly, your comparing an artlang to an auxlang. But screw it, the beliefs of 
a "lowly YouTuber" are worth more than that of a "scholarly source" such as 
if you're gonna be an jerk online, don't associate yourself with the movement. 
it's people like you that drive people away from learning Esperanto in the 
first place. I've seen first hand people discouraged to learn it due to idiots 
like you online.
If you were an Esperantist, you'd, know that Esperanto was made to bring people 
together not be your excuse to complain about another language that wasn't made 
with internationality in mind. And so what, if tp, a language that doesn't have 
more than a centuries worth of existence, was to be ADAPTED as an auxlang, 
(given more less vague vocab, and more printed learning resources other than 
the one, lone book made by S.Lang etc.) then I, an Esperantist as well, accept 
it would run circles around Esperanto. 
Your comparing a book, not book series a book, to 138 years of resources and 
2000+(those numbers may be off by a margin but the point still stands) native 
Piss off, and don't think your better than anyone here. If you wanna be a 
goofus online, work for Trump, I think he'll take a looking to you, ya might 
get an even better pay working with/for the president

Sat Sep  3 13:55:53 50557,
You Safar jes vi veregas

Sat Sep  3 13:55:55 50557,
Anthony McCarthy and yes some natural languages don't have and cannot write 
about scholarly topics so by your definition !xoo isn't a language (I think I'm 
no further than a 1/4 through this thread lol)

Sat Sep  3 13:55:57 50557,
mi kama tawa pini pi poka toki lili. mi pali e ken ala!!!! 
I think that accounts for all the relevant communities it's been fun guys or is 
this thread still ongoing

Sat Sep  3 13:55:59 50557,
DeluxeTux5249 I liked every comment in the thread. It was hard, but I did it. 
Also, "silly Billy" is very insulting to my people and you should stop using it.

海達覺得你好嘅 ハイ田は、あなた
Sat Sep  3 13:56:01 50557,
this thread is art

Strike Ecozzocn
Sat Sep  3 13:56:03 50557,
Anthony McCarthy if we read more? You’re the one trying to get us to 
translate an Esperanto book into toki pona!

Sat Sep  3 13:56:05 50557,
this thread is a masterpiece and i hate it, thanks

Sat Sep  3 13:56:08 50557,
Hi all you readers and commenters, welcome to the one year anniversary post for 
“New Radio Shows”; the comment thread where us rowdy kids goof off with an 
old man who refuses to acknowledge other people’s ideas. 
I’m SRG Thai Boxing champion and comedy writer Seth Raptor, one of the 
creators of the thread “New Radio Shows”. I play the part of 
“sethraptor” on NRS. Since my character’s incarceration at the end of 
season one, I’ve been working extra hard with con-langue critic, Anthony, and 
our other collaborators to bring you all even more outrageous internet 
discourse content. This interactive comment-based format to storytelling is 
unprecedented in both art and in the world of entertainment media, so it’s 
been very challenging and rewarding to work on this little project and see it 
grow over the last twelve months into something none of us could have expected 
when we ignorantly penned Anthony’s first moderately insulting accusation 
back in 2017. And can I just say, the time has just crawled by since then. It 
feels like it’s been so much longer than that, doesn’t it? It’s just 
crazy for me to think about how far we’ve come in that short time, it’s 
been an incredibly humbling and rewarding experience to see the reaction and 
support of all our fans while we worked on this weird little thing in our 
corner of the internet.
 So, first order of business, in this comment I want to send out a big thank 
you to all our fans, readers, and participants in the thread over this last 
year. We’ve had some great times interacting with the NRS community and 
reading all the nice tweets on the hashtag #NewRadioShows, and we’ve 
attracted a surprising amount of attention considering we haven’t spent a 
single dollar on advertising. We’re running this thing completely on word of 
mouth, so we really appreciate you guys talking about the show on social media 
and sharing it with all your friends. If you want to support our project, the 
best thing you can do is share it with your friends and family, and use the 
hashtag #NewRadioShows to spread the word about what we’re doing here. 
We’re really just a few guys on the internet, we don’t have any big company 
behind us, or any investors, so you guys’ support is a huge deal to us, and 
we’re so thankful for whatever you can give. 
 Secondly, I want to make some announcements about what you can expect to see 
on the upcoming third season of New Radio Shows that we’re calling “The 
Dis-enlightenment”. We’ve already got lots of exciting content written up, 
and plenty of esoteric references to marginally notable intellectuals, requests 
for translation of arguably challenging texts, and 20th century grade school 
insults ready to thoughtlessly fling at any members of the NRS community who 
think they might be the one who finally gets Anthony McCarthy to admit that he 
may have made a few too many assertions about the nature of language and also 
the world in general. You can also expect to see more plot development on the 
story of my favorite character sethraptor, who as you know has been in prison 
for six months. And we’ll finally get the answer to why Anthony just keeps on 
responding to youtube comments even though he is not being literally forced at 
gunpoint to do so. We’ve all been wondering, I’ve seen the fan theories, 
and some of them are really good, but I think you’ll find the real backstory 
very surprising. Also, expect to see some special guests coming on the thread! 
I don’t want to drop any names, but let’s just say some of you lucky 
commenters could get the chance to move the figurative goalposts with the 
second most superficial commentator on con-langues. Some would even call him 
… “idiotic”...
 Anyways, until then, thanks for sticking with us for these TWELVE WHOLE ENTIRE 
AGONIZING MONTHS, and don’t forget to tweet about us with the hashtag 
#NewRadioShows to spread the word. As they say in esperanto, ¡Będziesz Hasta 
Your Bientôt!

Sat Sep  3 13:56:10 50557,
Don't worry, we have some big plans ;)

Sat Sep  3 13:56:12 50557,
Hey this ain't a competition, man, we're just here to share some goofs and poke 
fun at the problems with internet comment discourse. We want our readers to 
think of Anthony not as an enemy to be defeated, but as a human being with a 
very different way of looking at things. Even though we poke fun at him alot in 
the comments, the objective is always to come to an understanding of each 
other, and maybe to find some common ground between us. The message we're 
trying to send has always been one of respect, and we (especially me) often 
worry that we haven't made that clear enough in our writing.

Dibyajyoti Lahiri
Sat Sep  3 13:56:15 50557,
To whoever it may concern, this thread, apart from giving me the worst migraine 
attack of my life, made me start learning toki pona :)

Noah Losert
Sat Sep  3 13:56:16 50557,
Guys I think Anthony might be dead

Brett Harkness
Sat Sep  3 13:56:18 50557,
Oh my god... I think you're right.  
Conlang Critic I think it's only right that you pay Anthony proper tribute.
You must make a video denouncing toki pona and giving your life to Dr.L Leizher 
Anthony, if you can hear me from that great Green Star in the sky,
You will be truly missed

Yarrow M
Sat Sep  3 13:56:20 50557,
Why are esperantists all such assholes? This is far from the first time I've 
seen an esperantist bully someone on youtube for not being a samideano.

Brett Harkness
Sat Sep  3 13:56:22 50557,

Sat Sep  3 13:56:24 50557,
mi pilin ike tan mi kama pi tenpo pini. mi wile toki e sina ali. linja sitelen 
ni li luka musi mute.
(mi wile toki e "comment thread" la mi wile pali e "linja sitelen" anu seme? )

Sat Sep  3 13:56:26 50557,
Idk if Anthony McCarthy will see this (sona moli anu seme?), but "I'm free" 
translates easily into "mi ken pali e ijo pi mi wile" or "I can do the things I 
want." Not hard to do if you're willing to think about what you say.

Sat Sep  3 14:11:14 50557,
Anthony McCarthy I know you're trying to roast toki pona for it's 
impracticality, but I will say that there is a natural language (pirahã), 
which only has 2 words for numbers. One word for a small quantity and another 
for large quantities. You may think that it's absurd (because we live in a 
society that needs larger numbers to exist), but if a language has no reason to 
distinguish between 1, 7, or 567,492, then of course its number system is going 
to be rather limited. Toki ponans Do recognize the number system as a potential 
flaw (such as was mentioned in the toki pona episode), but it's countered by 
saying that oftentimes, having specific quantities specified is not always 
important. That's like making the criticism that a turkey baster cannot be used 
to spray, when that's not its intended use. Toki pona doesn't have numbers for 
specific numbers, because for its purposes, it's not necessary.

Jacob Kang
Sat Sep  3 14:11:16 50557,
God this comment string is a legendary mess.

Fernando Banda
Sat Sep  3 14:11:17 50557,
I just want to say that as much as I regret the time I spent reading all of 
this despite the amusement factor, I'm actually now very inclined to look up 
Toki Pona.
And don't worry, I'm not discouraged to ever learn Esperanto at some point.

Shells 57
Sat Sep  3 14:11:19 50557,
Do I care that this thread was posted a year ago? No, no I don’t. 
Now to address an issue that to my knowledge was not mentioned in #Newradioshows
Thus, conlang=constructed language.
Esperanto is a constructed language. Toki Pona is a constructed language. Thus, 
As much as it saddens me to admit it, #Newradioshows shouldn’t have gone on 
for more than a day

Adonaí J. Arellano Flores
Sat Sep  3 14:11:20 50557,
Man the meme here is s u r r e a l

Andrew Christman
Sat Sep  3 14:11:21 50557,
Jesus Christ. You guys are insane. Anthony must have a stick so far up his ass 
he can taste it. Just respect a conlang. I know I'm late to the party, but 
DAYUM this gave me a headache to read. Just relax, we get it you have a hard on 
the for Esperanto. You should have just left it at that. Now, once again I only 
read to about the 200th comment, and I doubt anyone will see this, but i just 
wanted to vent my frustration at reading these comments. The argument has very 
little progression. "Toki Poki bad. Not many words" stfu if you dont havr 
anything nice to say, dont say it at all.

Sat Sep  3 14:11:23 50557,
Everybody in this beutiful comment chain has just got an unnecessary unfunny 

Sat Sep  3 14:11:24 50557,
You're welcome.

ilinniartoq Neriuutissaqanngitsoq
Wed Jul 20 14:11:26 50642,
Anthony McCarthy conlangs don't have to be spoken to be a conlang. Also what 
you're saying is like saying to someone who plays tennis as a hobby "stop 
playing it, if you aren't going to join a tournament"

Wed Sep 12 14:11:27 50891,
Huh, so this is finally dead.

Neal Pierce
Wed Sep 12 14:11:29 50891,
What a ride this garbage fire of a thread was. I could season nearly 4 tons of 
meat with the salt in here.

Wed Sep 12 14:11:30 50891,
@Neal Pierce this has to go somewhere on reddit

do the woah
Sun Jul 28 14:11:31 50976,
someone needs turns this into a massive google slide or powerpoint presentation 
just filled to the brim with nothing but these 400+ comments. this whole thread 
is probably the best i’ve ever encountered on youtube,

Sun Jul 28 14:11:32 50976,
Stultus Films Yeah. Pretty spicy thread right here

Sun Jul 28 14:11:34 50976,
Almost 500 responses, people! We can make it!

Thu Jun 13 14:11:36 51061,
Damn it! I had a serious question for Anthony McCarthy. He was making a big 
deal of the limited number of numbers in Conlang Critics' favourite language so 
that CC could feel the hurt that Anthony McCarthy felt when Esperanto was 
criticised in an unrelated video, but Aren't there natural languages that lack 
many numbers? 
I seem to recall when studying Natural Semantic Metalanguage at university 
years ago that their "Semantic Primes" only had a very small number of 
number-related words because they were the only few that appeared in all 
Just typed that and realised that this is a stupid place to discuss my question 
because this comment will never die and I can't be arsed scrolling down to read 
any intelligent replies that might appear. Oh well, at least I'll finally be 
part of something bigger than myself. <3

Thu Jun 13 14:11:37 51061,

Thu Jun 13 14:11:38 51061,
Rest In Piss Anthony McCarthy

Thu Jun 13 14:11:40 51061,
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage 
asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a 
comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"; that is, if an online 
discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later 
someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the 
point at which effectively the discussion or thread often ends.
Conlang Critic must be Adolf Hitler's daughter

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Thu Jun 13 14:11:41 51061,
Anthony McCarthy come back. I need to see people bullying you more for research 

Is2DealYou Яаgиа
Thu Jun 13 14:11:42 51061,
Plus I wanted to see you people beat the world record.

Alien Platypus
Thu Jun 13 14:11:44 51061,
Is2DealYou Яаgиа He responded like 200 times, maybe he got CTS so bad he 
died or something.

***Leticia ***
Thu Jun 13 14:11:45 51061,
It was a beautiful trainwreck. Thank you all.

Kyle Neckar
Thu Jun 13 14:11:46 51061,
holy crap I wish I could save this thread somehow

Ziyad Hamoda
Thu Feb 10 14:11:48 51138,
Brain xd anthony choongoose

Lord LunaEquie is me
Thu Feb 10 14:11:49 51138,
Oh dear lord. I was only skimming and that was quite the ride.

I'm half-convinced to learn Toki Pona now. I've got Japanese and Russian on my 
itinerary, so why not?

silver & noise
Thu Feb 10 14:11:51 51138,
What the fuck is a "conlang"? Is it like that stuff the girl from Sigur Ros 
sings in? 

Real irony is "Moby Dick" being featured so heavily throughout this thread.

Thu Feb 10 14:11:52 51138,
who's gonna get the last reply to this comment? find out next time on toxic 
youtube culture!

Neil Gratton
Mon Dec 26 14:11:54 51222,
These attitudes are why I stay away from Esperanto and its haughty community.

Relux the Relux
Mon Dec 26 14:11:55 51222,
Holy shit what in all cursed hells is this thread

Joshua Bateman
Mon Dec 26 14:11:57 51222,
This reply thread is just insane

Alexandra Townsend
Mon Dec 26 14:11:58 51222,
Hey conlang critic!
I found your channel last week.
This is easily the best reply thread I've seen in my life.  Thankyou for 
pinning this :)

Hu He
Mon Dec 26 14:12:00 51222,

Oliver Robinson
Mon Dec 26 14:12:01 51222,
This is the most fuckin ridiculous thread oml

Alice In Salt Land
Sat Feb 14 14:12:03 51305,
This thread WILD wild, and I’m guessing Anthony fingers most prolly been rot 
away to the point of him not being able to reply anymore 😔

ironic gacha
Sat Feb 14 14:12:04 51305,
legendary thread

Sat Feb 14 14:12:06 51305,
Anthony McCarthy Vi tre koleriĝas pri lingvo. Trankviliĝu

Sat Feb 14 14:12:07 51305,
Mike S. There is also a great worldbuilding series by Ewa U. spoken entirely in 

Sat Feb 14 14:12:09 51305,
Anthony McCarthy they are languages (no matter how simple or alien) that were 
constructed. (Con)structed (Lang)uage.

Sat Feb 14 14:12:10 51305,
r ã h d î h ö w ę

Joe Yuzwa
Mon Feb 19 14:12:11 51472,
Not even in the Norwegian black metal community is there an elitist so proud as 
you. I am barely read this without stopping to wonder why on earth you'd be so 
incredibly negative

Mon Feb 19 14:12:13 51472,
@Anthony McCarthy  literally everyone else wins the long war

The Zantidraf
Fri Sep  6 14:12:15 51518,
Holy shit that was an experience reading all of that. I hope whatever school 
district that anthony worked with found this

Dab Boi
Fri Sep  6 14:12:16 51518,
This dude thinks he’s the shit cuz he knows Esperanto no one cares. Plus i 
have no idea why you are so fixed on continuing this novel of a thread. Long 
live the thread boys!

Fri Sep  6 14:12:18 51518,
commenting to leave my mark in history. the adventure zone (lup, specifically) 
is a work of art

Gnome Slayer
Fri Nov  5 14:12:19 51537,
Sorry, don’t mind me. Just signing my name in this novel.

Fif Gallag
Sun Jul 15 11:43:47 51551,
3:40    As one of those “non-binaries” i love it every time you mention 
when a language doesn’t know I exist! :)

Sun Jul 15 11:43:51 51551,
All I'm worried about...
Is ido mutually intelligible with esperanto

Sam M.
Sun Jul 15 11:43:53 51551,
I've always conjured a certain stereotype in my head about what "an 
Esperantist" is like, and boy howdy does the pinned comment thread deliver on 

Todd Tolson
Fri Nov  5 11:43:55 51537,
Is /ts/ a sound an English speaker can’t easily produce? I don’t think we 
have a single sound which represents it, but what about “cats”? The coda 
should at least approximate the sound, right?

Fri Sep  6 11:43:58 51518,
Anthony McCarthy, the one man you do not want to bump into in the comment 

Mon Feb 19 11:44:00 51472,
... Man is a synonym for "human" though, so maybe the "man" there means "human" 
and not "male"
Using "man" to imply "male" should generally be obsoleted, it creates a lot of 

Conlang Critic
Mon Feb 19 11:53:08 51472,
the primary definition of "man" has been "male adult human" for centuries and 
is, in fact, newer than its use to mean "human". if any use should be obsoleted 
to avoid misunderstanding, it should be its use to mean "human".

Mon Feb 19 11:44:03 51472,
IDO es asun pijopik de Esperanto.

MC Cookies
Wed Dec 30 11:44:05 51389,
Wait, /ts/ isn't compatible with English? What about something like "tsunami"? 
I understand that not all dialects pronounce it fully, but if you were 
pronouncing English "correctly", that would use /ts/, no?

Caleb Berney
Wed Dec 30 11:44:08 51389,
Counterpoint to the flap/trill thing: I think if you can do the trill you can 
also do the flap, but not necessarily vice versa. Therefore the change from 
trill to flap is probably increasing the general usability.

Francesco S
Wed Dec 30 11:44:10 51389,
boy, to learn how latin-based languages work you need to learn Italian

Kaiser Tyranny
Sat Feb 14 11:44:12 51305,
I want to give a shout-out to Anthony for brightening up my drunken evening.

Brian M
Sat Feb 14 11:44:15 51305,
The benefit of changing the alveolar trill to the flap is that for people whose 
native language has neither sound, the flap is usually easier to learn.  It's 
for a similar reason that I don't really like the use of ⟨w⟩ in Toki Pona, 
because while it might be more common than sounds like ⟨ts⟩ or ⟨x⟩, it 
seems like people who don't have it in their native language have a harder time 
learning it.

Mon Feb 19 11:52:48 51472,
In such a situation, can't speakers of a language that don't have /w/ 
substitute it with /ʋ/ or /v/? I've also heard, firsthand, Germans and 
Russians hypercorrecting <v> with /w/ when speaking English.
But maybe you're onto something; maybe only one semivowel /j/ would be more 

Sat Feb 14 11:44:18 51305,
And still how Esperanto did it compared to a language like Spanish isn’t very 
good since it just adds on to one word for a gender to make the other gender 
unlike a language like say Spanish which instead of it being like Niño and 
Niñono or something it’s Niño and Niña so they have a base word to make it 
easy but for either gender there’s just a one letter distinction

Mon Dec 26 11:44:20 51222,
Isn’t English the third most commonly spoken language. Spanish is the second 
(I thought)

Nils R. Bull Young
Mon Dec 26 11:44:23 51222,
Please, for the sake of the Living Frank, can the goddamn background music!

Sherrig Ofdenmark
Mon Dec 26 11:44:25 51222,
I believe this whole gender thing is ridiculous and being taken out of hand, 
but if you are creating a language then you can avoid it in the first place.
I don’t really care what Conlang Critic’s politics are, the content is gold.
If you can create a language that let’s someone be content with their belief 
that they are a toaster, all is good.

Rohan Zener
Mon Dec 26 11:44:28 51222,
The bottom line is, the best interlang would be compatible with Mandarin.

Thu Feb 10 11:44:30 51138,
The five vowel system: Niyiyiyice pants! (Obscure "Whose Line" reference... 
It's here on Youtube.)

Thu Feb 10 11:44:33 51138,
"Please no politics"
"Well, hear me out"
>it's just more politics

David Simpson
Thu Feb 10 14:24:25 51138,
You talk so fast it's hard to understand you!

mechnokie blood
Thu Feb 10 14:24:27 51138,
Normally people pronounce scii as if the last I is silent or they just stress 
the I

Thu Feb 10 14:24:28 51138,
Pretty sure English is very unusual in not having linguistic distinctions based 
on how well you know someone. I think every language I have learnt has this, 
though not necessarily in the word for "you'

Andrew Watson
Thu Jun 13 14:24:30 51061,
I hadn't heard of Esperanto until I just watched your previous video 1 minute 
ago. I found your channel because of your seximal video.

Soviet Loli
Thu Jun 13 14:24:31 51061,
1:03 The alveolar flap is easier to learn than the trill. I tried my whole life 
to do the trill, but to no success. Learning the flap took just a few seconds.
This is subjective, but perhaps it's universal. And in that case, it's better 
for such a language.

Thu Jun 13 14:24:33 51061,
Not gonna lie, I watched like ten of these in a row and was kinda waiting for 
the pannenkoek joke, you've got the right voice for it and everything. Well 

Szymon Arabas
Thu Jun 13 14:24:35 51061,
Pannenkoek references <3

Thu Jun 13 14:24:37 51061,
I gotta to correct you
We don't actually have a voiced palatal fricative in Italian, or at least not 
in the standard varieties, it is only used in some local accents and in 

Guacamo Shakrtveli
Mon Feb 19 14:30:53 51472,
And we don't even have "h"

Thu Jun 13 14:24:39 51061,
The familiar/formal distinction in second person singular is extremely common 
world-wide. Indeed, English is one of the few languages that doesn't include 
it, and English did have it until the 17th century.

Thu Jun 13 14:24:41 51061,

Sun Jul 28 14:24:43 50976,
This channel is essentially a person walking around a room, pointing at peoples 
hobbies and telling them that they're no good in a condescending manner. Then 
you find out that person has his own hobby in the room and he is covertly 
trying to make you think it's the best one, deriding it's far more popular 
It's OK kid, we know you like Toki Pona, it's just the majority think it sucks.

Conlang Critic
Sun Jul 28 14:31:06 50976,
that's a really good way to explain what a review series is

Neil Gratton
Mon Dec 26 14:31:07 51222,
toki poni li pona tawa mi :-)

Sun Jul 28 14:24:45 50976,
Saying that how "woman" is just a variation "man" is sexist is a bit stupid 
Saying it's sexist implies it comes from a place of malice 
Really it's more just a product of our evolution/culture and in the old days it 
was considered normal, even to women

Conlang Critic
Sun Jul 28 14:31:02 50976,
what is a patriarchal culture if not a place of malice

Pokemon is cool
Wed Sep 12 14:24:48 50891,
It’s hilarious how salty people get about feminism. Just because you don’t 
like to admit that sexism is still a problem doesn’t mean you can pretend it 
doesn’t exist. Before someone replies “THEY ALREADY HAVE EQUAL 
RIGHTS!!!!”, that is true legally, but only in 1st world countries.
Even so, cultural sexism is just as big of a problem, if it wasn’t we 
wouldn’t have shit like incels.

Bruh Moment
Wed Sep 12 14:24:50 50891,
I do

Wed Sep 12 14:24:52 50891,
imagine the level of douchebaggery and microphallicism it takes to be the "holy 
fuck leave your politics out of this" guy.

Nile Snow
Fri Jul 24 14:24:54 50809,
Ya! Yaha! Woo! 
Please excuse me. I just felt your music needed that.

Fri Jul 24 14:24:56 50809,
I might sound stupid here, but doesn't English have /ts/ in 'rats'? I might be 
blatantly wrong here but I just want to make sure.

Conlang Critic
Fri Jul 24 14:30:57 50809,
while the sequence /ts/ does exist in English, this isn't the same exact thing 
as the phoneme /t͡s/ (which is usually just written like /ts/ to make things 
easier). in English, /ts/ is a sequence of a plosive followed by a fricative as 
opposed to an affricate. even though affricates generally sound basically the 
same as stop fricative sequences, English /ts/ is not considered a single 
phoneme simply because it doesn't behave like one in English phonotactics. 
unlike /t͡ʃ/, /ts/ doesn't appear word initially outside of some 
pronunciations of loanwords. (eg. choof /t͡ʃuf/ would be valid but tsoof 
/tsuf/ would not be) /ts/ also tends to only appear across morpheme boundaries, 
like the "rats" example you gave. "rats" consists of two separate roots: "rat" 
and the "-s" suffix. the -s suffix creates a lot of consonant sequences that 
wouldn't appear in English words otherwise, such as /θs/ (as in "breaths") or 
/fs/ (as in "proofs").

Wed Sep 12 14:30:59 50891,
Conlang Critic Ahhh, that makes more sense.

Don Fatale
Fri Jul 24 14:24:59 50809,
What is it with the pointless background music on so many YouTube video?

Mon Sep  8 14:25:01 50724,
you speak so fucking fast

ChangGoon Yi
Mon Sep  8 14:25:03 50724,
Do you know a newly constructed ConLang, Simi Orbis. 
If you are interested in this new language, 
please visit the facebook group, Simi Orbis. 
the Youtube Channel, Simi Orbis.

T Orrent
Wed Jul 20 14:40:26 50642,
Unlistenable garbage.  Stop editing out gaps in your speech, videos CAN be as 
long as ten hours.  Yours isn't.

Wed Jul 20 14:40:28 50642,
but english does have ts like in cats

0lly Melancholy
Wed Dec 30 14:47:21 51389,
Conlang Critic:
"while the sequence /ts/ does exist in English, this isn't the same exact thing 
as the phoneme /t͡s/ (which is usually just written like /ts/ to make things 
easier). in English, /ts/ is a sequence of a plosive followed by a fricative as 
opposed to an affricate. even though affricates generally sound basically the 
same as stop fricative sequences, English /ts/ is not considered a single 
phoneme simply because it doesn't behave like one in English phonotactics. 
unlike /t͡ʃ/, /ts/ doesn't appear word initially outside of some 
pronunciations of loanwords. (eg. choof /t͡ʃuf/ would be valid but tsoof 
/tsuf/ would not be) /ts/ also tends to only appear across morpheme boundaries, 
like the "cats" example you gave. "cats" consists of two separate roots: "cat" 
and the "-s" suffix. the -s suffix creates a lot of consonant sequences that 
wouldn't appear in English words otherwise, such as /θs/ (as in "breaths") or 
/fs/ (as in "proofs")."

Roberto Padylha
Sat Sep  3 14:40:30 50557,
Saluton! Mi nomighas Roberto Padilha el Fortalezo Brazilo. Bonvole, sendu al mi 
gramatikoj kaj kurso de Esperanto. Mia adreso : Travessa Jangadeiro, 76 
Mucuripe Fortaleza Ceará Brasil. Dankon! Dio benu vin. Kisetoj. Ankauh Ido.

Sat Sep  3 14:40:32 50557,
eu isn't common but it's still really easy to pronounce

Mc Hobbit
Sat Sep  3 14:40:34 50557,
I don't get why they the feminine suffix is -o of all things. I speak English, 
German and French, I don't associate the ending with a female. Someone whose 
native language is Spanish or Italian would get especially confused because the 
-o ending is always masculine there. I cannot think of a language where girls 
are -o.

Neil Gratton
Mon Dec 26 14:46:31 51222,
It's not, 'o' is the noun suffix. 'in' is the feminine infix.

Sat Sep  3 14:40:37 50557,
I’ve just rewatched this and realised.... English has ts just it’s at the 
end of words like hats and darts

Иван Рогожин
Sat Sep  3 14:40:38 50557,
I’m a native has-distinction-between-formal-and-intimate-you-language 
speaker, and it’s not about not being in yours, it’s definitely a stupid 
thing to have even in a natural language. There are no clear rules, sometimes 
you’re forced to just ask what one the one prefers, sometimes you keep 
communicating in moths avoiding using not only the pronoun but also all the 
second person forms of verbs and adjectives which is highly annoying. I wish we 
could just speak same to anyone and this possibility is one of the best things 
about English.
"Woman is a kind of man" is not really natural… On the contrary, man is 
actually kind of woman in the first place, ’cause the earlier organisms were 
reproductive and only later some of them developed additional gender to spread 
functions on. I dunno why did later people decide to make the male one primal 
if they could just do the neutral thing (well, some did).
Pity the music volume spoiled the video.

Soviet Loli
Thu Jun 13 14:47:30 51061,
Languages were invented before Darwin was even born, so these uncultured 
neanderthals had no idea.

Patricia McGeorge
Sat Sep  3 14:40:41 50557,
I can't seem to reply to Anthony McArthy, but can I mention that A) You don't 
have to speak a language fluently to be able to work with it. Without knowing a 
word of Arabic, I beat an Arabic person on an Arabic test because linguistics. 
Case in point - LangFocus Chanel B) A show like this wouldn't work if he was 
fluent in every language he reviewed - he almost certainly doesn't have the 
time to learn enough languages to make a consistent Conlang Critic show C) 
Being fluent in a language is one thing, reading three times a week in it is 
another. That's not knowing the language - that's downright obsession and a 
potential waste of time (depending on your time management skills) D) You 
seriously expect Esperanto to become a functional interlang? I speak Esperanto 
fluently, but I do it as a hobby, and to add a language to the list of those I 
know. It isn't, and is unlikely to ever be, an interlang.

Quality Content
Sat Sep  3 14:40:42 50557,
Sorry mate, but doesn't English have /ts/?
- Cats
- Bats
- Rats
- Mates
- Gates

Quality Content
Sat Sep  3 14:40:44 50557,
Sorry mate, but doesn't English have /ts/?
- Cats
- Bats
- Rats
- Mates
- Gates

Sat Sep  3 14:40:46 50557,
Great Episode iv been vey interested in IDO and the video was very interesting. 
I think it would be interesting for you to make a vid a bout how to fix the 
problems you out line.

Sat Sep  3 14:40:47 50557,
Ido is just a bland, soulless form of Esperanto. For all of Esperanto's 
practical faults, it is today a living and breathing language virtually as much 
as any natural one and Ido purged of all that made it stand out as a unique 
idiom in its own right in favour of turning in into a generic Romanceclone.

Epic Stimulus
Sat Sep  3 14:40:49 50557,
0:30 - 0:32 lol

Entire Total
Sat Sep  3 14:40:51 50557,
Can any Spanish speaker confirm that "ido" means "crazy" en español?

Ken Collins
Sat Sep  3 14:40:52 50557,
Esperanto is the only constructed language that is not an under-construction 
language, the only one with millions of speakers, and the only one with native 
speakers, hardback books, books on subjects other than itself, and is the only 
one used as the language of instruction in a graduate school for the sciences. 
It serves as a base (Ido) or a source (Toki Pona) for other constructed 
languages. In its 150-year history, it has  has developed in the same way and 
at the same pace as natural languages.  The sentence "bonvolu alklaki ĉi tiun 
legilon por vidi mian mojosan retejon" would be valid Esperanto words and good 
Esperanto grammar in 1887 (though "mojosa" is recent), but Zamenof would have 
no clue what it means. Every Esperanto-speaker today knows that it means 
"please click on this link to see my cool website." Which other of these 
languages can boast hardback books. books on topics other than the language 
itself, and its own popular music? Esperanto functions as a living language 
today. There is really no point in reviewing it here.,

Quality Content
Sat Sep  3 14:40:54 50557,
English TOTALLY has a /ts/ sound. If it didn't have the alveolar flap it'd be 
compatible with English, and it already is with Scottish English.

Quality Content
Sat Sep  3 14:40:55 50557,
English TOTALLY has a /ts/ sound. If it didn't have the alveolar flap it'd be 
compatible with English, and it already is with Scottish English.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 14:47:15 50557,
whoah, scottish english has /eu/?

Quality Content
Sat Sep  3 14:47:16 50557,
No, it does not. My mistake. It is compatible with the rest though.

Clive Goodman
Sat Sep  3 14:40:58 50557,
The combination 'ts' exists in English as in 'cats'. It is not considered a 
phoneme, however, but a combination of phonemes. Nevertheless it can be easily 
pronounced by native English speakers.

Entire Total
Sat Sep  3 14:46:46 50557,

Noam Tashma
Sat Sep  3 14:41:00 50557,
Request: Modern Hebrew!
Obviously, not really a conlang, but it has some conlanging in it - at the very 
very beggining elements from different versions of hebrew (biblical, talmudic, 
mishnaic, and the such) were picked and chosen to form the beggining of modern 
Then at the early stages, people deliberately made up new words (preferably 
with old roots) for new modern concepts, or readapted old words.
Basically, each word currently in hebrew is either a loanword, slang, or was 
intentionally invented or picked up from an extinct version of hebrew.

Rolf Hartmann
Sat Sep  3 14:41:02 50557,
Isn't the Alveolar affricate (/ts/) the sound you make at the end of english 
words like "hates"? At least that's how I'd pronounce it.

Harrison Cwiklinski
Sat Sep  3 14:56:56 50557,
3:36, You are awesome! I heard that and I immediately knew what you were 
referring to.

Naþan Ø
Sat Sep  3 14:56:58 50557,
Hm, has anyone done a condialect yet?

Marios Rouggeris
Sat Sep  3 14:57:00 50557,
why do you hate the  vowel system?

Xanman Gaming
Sat Sep  3 14:57:01 50557,
did pannenkoek even get into here

Brendan Ózi
Sat Sep  3 14:57:03 50557,
Hello my interlang has a four vowel system and 16 phonemes. But it uses š and 
ž because i<3háčeks

Mon Feb 19 15:02:54 51472,
You should make a video about it.

Theodore Landman
Sat Sep  3 14:57:05 50557,
"eurocentric" wtf cuckistani propaganda

Hector Quinones
Sat Sep  3 14:57:07 50557,
Cool music, but too loud

Sat Sep  3 14:57:09 50557,
3:30 As a Kid I always thought it was childish to automatically assume that 
"Its sexism" all the time as your first thought to a gender difference. I saw 
it like that cause that was the farthest thing to my little mind than anything 
else. Me, I thought it was cause of an unimaginative mind, a mistake, laziness, 
didn't care, you know, I actually put some thought in it, than going on blowing 
assertions out my ass.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:02:10 50557,
so what do YOU call it when women are blatantly treated worse than men? for 
example, a constructed language giving men their own basic roots and then 
deriving the terms for women from those roots, instead of just, you know, 
having gender neutral roots that words for women and men both derive from? I 
call it sexism

Sat Sep  3 15:02:12 50557,
I can't speak for the myriad of gender inequalities women and men face in the 
world  but just sticking to constructed languages here. I'm pretty sure many 
more astute viewers would bring up your Láadan review. A conlang were it gives 
women their own basic roots and then deriving the terms for men from that 
roots, you reframed from saying thats sexism.
For other conlangs that do that use men as their own basic roots and then 
deriving the terms for women from those roots, I don't think it was out of 
any malice towards women. This subject is just to vas and complicated for me 
to type all out I would say look up some sites/videos on the subject like 
Doctor. J. Peterson and the like.

PastelJelly 2
Sat Sep  3 14:57:11 50557,

Brendan Ózi
Sat Sep  3 14:57:13 50557,

Rosa Lovecraft
Sat Sep  3 14:57:15 50557,
Technically speaking English does have the ts affricate, it's just that most 
speakers are too lazy to pronounce it. it's in the loanword tsunami, for those 
of you who are particularly dense. that being said, I don't think any English 
word (loanword or not) uses the eu diphthong.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:02:32 50557,
the reason most people don't pronounce tsunami with an affricate is the same 
reason most people don't pronounce croissant with a nasal vowel: it's not a 
phonemic sound in english. if you count sounds that only appear in pedantic 
pronunciations of loanwords, you can argue that english has whatever sounds you 

The Perpetual Procrastinator
Sat Sep  3 14:57:29 50557,
If you were to design an inventory for an auxlang what phonemes would you use?

David Shaner
Sat Sep  3 14:57:31 50557,
i’m entirely missing the point of the territorial responses of the conlang 
critic’s critics. why does he need to defend his opinion-giving, credibility, 
scholarship, or conclusions? esperanto, a gesture of hope in a hopeless world, 
is an international auxillary language...cobbled from european languages. 
thanks, european hegemony, for saving us from ourselves — again!
currently, the lingua franca is english — with crippling problems, yes, but 
how does esperanto really serve as an improvement; rather, how is it necessary? 
conlangs certainly can help us understand “real” languages, and i do 
believe ials have an intrinsic philosophical value. i also believe real-world 
experience, as in everything else, gets in the way of our best efforts.

Jacob Locklear
Sat Sep  3 14:57:33 50557,
There are only two genders. Stop adding politics into your videos and just 
review the dam languages

Jacob Locklear
Sat Sep  3 15:02:42 50557,
Ps love what you do keep it up

Neil Gratton
Mon Dec 26 15:02:44 51222,
Are we talking grammatical gender? Because some languages have way more than 

Ike Moon
Sat Sep  3 14:57:35 50557,
also, some people pronounce "tsunami" with /ts/ at the beginning, though 
granted it's a loan word. ("it's")

Ken Collins
Sat Sep  3 14:57:37 50557,
Esperanto doesn't think a woman is a kind of man. In most of Esperanto's source 
languages, the ending -o is neuter. All nouns in Esperanto are neuter and a 
special feminine form can be made by using the heavily used 
German/Dutch/whatever else suffix -in. The pattern of specifying female 
continues in the kinship terms.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:03:45 50557,
so, if "virino" isn't the word for "man" then a suffix meaning "female", then 
what does "vir(o)" on its own mean? it certainly doesn't mean "person".

Louis Francisco
Sat Sep  3 15:03:47 50557,
Not all nouns are neuter. All inanimates are neuter, and the majority of 
animates are. But there are a handful of inherently masculine nouns and some 
inherently feminine.

Louis Francisco
Sat Sep  3 15:03:48 50557,
-in only means "female" when used with neuter roots, e.g. "heroino". It cannot 
have the exact same meaning for masculine words: "patrino" doesn't mean "female 
father". That would be silly. It means "the female counterpart of father".

Ken Collins
Sat Sep  3 15:03:49 50557,
You have to make a distinction between grammatical gender and semantic meaning. 
In German, one of Zamenhof's major source languages, diminutives are 
grammatically neuter. They take neuter articles and adjectives, as in das 
Männchen and das Weibchen. Both words are grammatically neuter, but the first 
one refers only to a male creature and the second one only to a female 
In the Slavic languages, masculine nouns generally end in a consonant, feminine 
nouns in -A, and neuter nouns in -O. Bialystok was in the Russian Empire, 
Zamenhof's medical education was in Russian, Esperanto has slavic phonology, 
and the first Esperanto grammar pamphlet was published in Russian. Accordingly 
in Esperanto, all nouns end in -O and are grammatically neuter, but they could 
refer to masculine, feminine, or neuter things.
Gender and sex don't necessarily coincide. In German, a man can be a Person and 
a woman can be a Mensch, even though Person is grammatically (but not 
semantically) feminine and Mensch is grammatically (but not 
semantically) masculine.
In Esperanto, all nouns are grammatically neuter, but they can refer to 
masculine, feminine, or neuter things—such as instruisto, which can be a man, 
a woman, or, hypothetically, a robot.

Louis Francisco
Sat Sep  3 15:03:51 50557,
I agree that esperanto doesn't have grammatic gender. But if you want to talk 
about the feminine suffix then you need to take into account that esperanto 
roots have neuter (most of them), masculine or feminine meaning. The suffix 
won't have the exact same meaning on neuter words and on masculine roots.

Ken Collins
Sat Sep  3 15:03:52 50557,
Zamenhof took the -in suffix from German. He might not have known this, but it 
is also used in Dutch. The German suffix -in is used extensively in help wanted 
ads, such as "looking for a Reporter/in," and in other contexts where it is 
necessary to be explicitly inclusive, even when the masculine form is inclusive 
on its own.
All Esperanto nouns are grammatically neuter (gender, not sex). Some have 
masculine or feminine (sex, not gender) meanings, but aside from kinship 
terms, nouns that refer to people are not specific to the person's sex. For 
example, a flegisto is either a man or a woman. A flegistino can only be a 
woman. There is no way to specify that flegisto only refers to a man.

Louis Francisco
Sat Sep  3 15:03:54 50557,
Mi ne diris alie.

Clive Goodman
Sat Sep  3 15:03:55 50557,
Ken Collins. In Russian 'o' is a neuter suffix, but in Italian and Spanish it 
is a Masculine suffix.

Ken Collins
Sat Sep  3 15:03:57 50557,
Spanish wasn't one of Zamenhof's source languages.

Edward Davis
Sat Sep  3 14:57:39 50557,
at the time of THIS video, I know waht esperanto is, but when I found your 
channel, I did not. I am just a conliguist that was looking for cool conlang 
channels. Currently working on my 5th conlang, all for my book :)

Leo Morgenstern
Sat Sep  3 14:57:41 50557,
German has eu but it's spoken more like oi

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:03:01 50557,
yeah you got me /ɔʏ/ and /eu/ are clearly the same sound

dr ostrich
Sat Sep  3 14:57:43 50557,
Lets cut the international language in half

Ike Moon
Sat Sep  3 14:57:45 50557,
Lydstrykken af musikken var for høj

Ike Moon
Sat Sep  3 15:03:24 50557,
El volumen de la musica era demasiada alta

Ike Moon
Sat Sep  3 15:03:27 50557,
Dude the beat's kickin' too hard aight

Sat Sep  3 15:15:50 50557,
Although , about the gender neutral pronoun, gxi (it) it not a dehumanizing 
pronoun like in English. Hell I use it all the time. Gxi faris gin (they/it did 
it) I agreed and understood everything in this and the Esperanto video 
(especially after digging through comments to find what you believed it to be) 
but I'd like to put a suggestion: go to communities if possible. It can help 
clarify different nuances of the language that are otherwise obscured by formal 

Sat Sep  3 15:15:52 50557,
Do elvish

Sat Sep  3 15:15:55 50557,
Music at the end is too loud.

Kyazar Shadala
Sat Sep  3 15:16:07 50557,
I would never have expected pannenkoek reference in a linguistic video

Mr. Rich B.O.B
Sat Sep  3 15:16:09 50557,
English has /t͡s/, we're just stupid and don't think we have it. For some 
reason, an initial "t" is magically ignored :P
Alsom @ 3:41, oh heck yeah, because of that, if I ever work on another conlang, 
I'm inventing gender rules specifically to repress non-binary.

Mon Feb 19 15:21:58 51472,
english doesn't have /t͡s/ as a separate phoneme. it's just /t/ and /s/. 
that's why we don't pronounce the initial "t"

Mr. Rich B.O.B
Sat Sep  3 15:16:11 50557,
"If you don't know what Esperanto is, please tell me how you found this video 
and why you're watching it..." Dude, I can honestly say, I have never legitly 
laughed out loud in my life, before.

Baptiste Clugéry-sénégas
Sat Sep  3 15:16:13 50557,
Thx to speak about the inner sexism of esperanto. I'm learning esperanto, and 
when I discover that all noun are masculin. In tried to discusse with fellow 
esperantisto. They said "you have to understand that is a 19th century conlang, 
so it's a reminiscence of the mentality". So I'm relief that i'm not the only 
one to see that. (sorry for my english)

Louis Francisco
Sat Sep  3 15:22:46 50557,
If you discovered that all nouns are masculine in esperanto, then you weren't 
learning esperanto.
Only a handful of words are inherently masculine. Some are inherently feminine. 
All nouns for inanimates and the majority of nouns for animates are neuter.

Mosco Monster
Sat Sep  3 15:16:15 50557,
the first videos were cool and all, but this is getting kinda repetitive. Isn't 
there anything more interesting to talk about these conlangs other than their 
excessive sounds, strange grammar and political afiliation?

Bcoo1 ?
Sat Sep  3 15:16:17 50557,
Have you done Novial?

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:21:11 50557,
just updated the Big List

Strike Ecozzocn
Sat Sep  3 15:16:19 50557,
2:13 as a native English speaker I can say that English has t͡s what about 
pizza or any plural noun that ends in ‘t’

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:22:07 50557,
that's /ts/, not /t͡s/. the difference is subtle but important!

Timothy Verma
Sat Sep  3 15:22:09 50557,

Chrice Chiu
Sat Sep  3 15:22:10 50557,

Masteredog Films
Sat Sep  3 15:22:11 50557,
Tsunami is a Japanese loanword

Soviet Loli
Thu Jun 13 15:22:13 51061,
I always cringe when I hear the English pronounciation of ps, ks and ts in 
loanwords. Which tend to be s, z and s.

Golden Plastic
Sat Sep  3 15:16:22 50557,
English has the ts sound.

Conlang Critic
Sat Sep  3 15:21:51 50557,
not phonemically

Clive Goodman
Sat Sep  3 15:21:52 50557,
Conlang Critic. So what?

Entire Total
Sat Sep  3 15:21:54 50557,
/ŋ/ is a phoneme in English, but good luck teaching English speakers to 
reliably pronounce and hear it in initial position. The same argument applies 
to /ts/.

Arturo Stojanoff
Sat Sep  3 15:16:24 50557,
"My idiolect of written English..."
What the hell??

The Major
Sun May  4 15:16:25 49558,
I agree on the sexist part in languages, but I agree a conlang should have 
things like professions be neuter and if a woman or man is having said 
profession a prefix, infix, suffix, circumfix, interfix, simulfix, transfix, 
suprafix or a disfix.
Gender 1 / Gender 2 / Gender not specified.
Let's make up a word, let's say Komcham let's say it's a title of some 
sort(profession, name, stage in life and so on...)
Then let's say that the unspecified gender of said title, is Komchamu, Komchami 
is the female, and komchame is the male.
Or ukomcham, ikomcham, ekomcham; depending on what one prefers when making a 
language, infixes could be used as well.
Komucham, Komicham, Komecham. Circumfix ukomchamu, ikomchami, ekomchame. The 
rest aren't so easy to show off though.

Sun May  4 15:16:27 49558,

Sun May  4 15:16:29 49558,
does half an A press

%%%, Conlang Critic, %%%%%
(come to think of it that's not a bad symbol for a clap)

Sun May  4 15:16:30 49558,
It upsets me that people think gender/sex identity has anything to do with 
politics... Or, rather, that in the public mind it has /become/ almost 
exclusively about politics.

Jeshua Tehillah
Sun May  4 15:16:32 49558,
when will you do Angos

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:21:20 49558,
you've already requested that! don't worry, your first request was noted on the 
Big List, which you can see by donating to my Patreon

Omega Fallon
Sun May  4 15:16:34 49558,
keep your politics in these videos

Öğrenci Sarp Eren Hangişi
Sun May  4 15:16:36 49558,
Hahaha tj """""""Henry""""""" Yoshi reference

Louis Corbett
Sun May  4 15:16:38 49558,
Women and men are different, it's not sexist it's natural... like language.

Mauricio Liadanni
Sun May  4 15:32:39 49558,
Spanish is the second most spoken language, not english

Neil Gratton
Mon Dec 26 15:38:15 51222,
It depends if you include second language speakers.

matthew fanous
Sun May  4 15:32:42 49558,
that pannenkoak meme came straight out of nowhere, and i freaking love it

Soviet Loli
Thu Jun 13 15:39:35 51061,
It was absolutely perfect. All youtubers who get the same dumb comments 
repeatedly and decide to reply slightly condescendingly should do it this way.
I hope Dzeeff (a Yugioh youtuber) joins in.

Jatin Bharati
Sun May  4 15:32:46 49558,
German does use Du, Ihr, and Sie.

Sun May  4 15:32:48 49558,
Boom, headshot:

Jolie Rouge
Sun May  4 15:32:51 49558,
I guess it's just that people want to like you, and then you go all libtard on 
them, and it kind of kills the fun. People are just showing their 
disappointment when they realize that even though you're very intelligent, 
you're also kind of a mangina. Sexism is a feature, all the successful 
languages have it. They might be on to something :)

Ginger Ale
Sun May  4 15:32:54 49558,
I think the alveolar flap instead of the trill is because trills are difficult 
for many people (including myself, I can't produce a trill sound at all)

Sun May  4 15:32:56 49558,
odd how the mic quality decreased since the Klingon episode.

Tyron S
Sun May  4 15:32:58 49558,
The prefix 'mal' is still there, it just isn't used as much and has a different 
word to avoid confusion with Romance languages

Vikram Sundarraman
Sun May  4 15:33:00 49558,
Thank you for this review that I was looking forward to. I totally agree with 
your observations on conlangs having an opportunity to handle gender in a 
reasonable manner from the beginning. I have not studied Esperanto or Ido in 
sufficient detail, but I am really curious to know if the Ido solution to 
gender asymmetry in Esperanto is a reasonable one, why is the Esperanto 
community unwilling to give it even a consideration? I mean if we don't change 
other aspects of Esperanto but just handle gender the way Ido does, how 
difficult will it be for users of Esperanto to adopt to that? is there 
something about the design of Esperanto that makes gender reform almost 
impossible, or is it just the mindset of its users?

Mike S.
Sun May  4 15:39:23 49558,
I am not an Esperantist (just a curious casual observer of the language) but I 
believe I know two basic reasons why radical reforms are difficult to implement 
in Esperanto despite all the pressure: (1) The language has a substantial 
history of usage and literature which has entrenched the current system, 
particularly for certain words like "patro" which means father. Think of how 
hard it would be to make every English speaker re-assign "father" to serve as 
the basic word for parent, and consider the break this would cause with past 
English literature.  (2) Esperantists are afraid that even if you could force 
changes like that, it would be dangerous to do so because it would set a 
precedent for further reforms.  Further reforms, in turn, would cause chaos and 
demoralization and undermine the real goal of the Esperantist movement, which 
is to get everyone in the world speaking an international language.  In 
summary, Esperanto works well enough, and Esperantists value achieving their 
idealistic vision over trying to make a perfect language, assuming a perfect 
language is even possible in the first place.

Vikram Sundarraman
Sun May  4 15:39:24 49558,
This is the argument that I have heard in other forums also, which to me looks 
okay if Esperanto is promoted only as a hobby language. Then, I don't have any 
problem with it. However,, the Esperanto community hopes that this language 
will become the international auxiliary language bringing all of us together. 
If they are serious about it, they need to do more to address the issue of 
gender justice. As Yan Misali observes, a conlang has the opportunity to treat 
gender fairly from the beginning and Esperanto has chosen to ignore it. Ido 
seems to have fixed it, thought it might have introduced a host of other 
issues. So, if we were to choose a language for all, I would still prefer Ido 
over Esperanto because Esperanto is flawed by design, even if it has greater 
established user base. It is not at all about having a perfect language. It is 
just about being reasonable in the way gender is handled. Natural languages 
have issues with gender because they grew out of a culture which took a long 
time to recognize the need for gender justice. Okay, Esperanto does not have 
grammatical gender as such like Spanish or French. However, how did they come 
up with the ridiculous idea of calling mother a female father: something that 
no natural language I am aware of does and something totally against 
commonsense (I would think the root word should be like a parent of any gender 
and male or female gender can be marked when required). Ultimately, I see a 
hypocrisy in the community in holding on to the version of a language that is 
less than reasonable and at the same time advocating for its adoption as an 
international auxiliary language. If established user base and existing 
literature is a criteria, Basic English is much more suitable than Esperanto 
for this purpose.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 15:39:25 49558,
I agree with some of what you're saying -- no language on earth that I know of 
lacks a basic word for mother.  Zamenhof was trying to reduce the burden of 
learning the vocabulary, and like a person who works with a hammer for a living 
he started to see everything as a nail.  However, I have a different 
interpretation of what this design goof actually amounts to.  IMHO the problem 
is more logic and efficiency than justice.  (I don't really wish to rehash the 
whole topic; I had a really long conversation with "John Paine" over on 
Misali's "Comment Responses: Esperanto" video if you want to know the gory 
details of my opinion).

Vikram Sundarraman
Sun May  4 15:39:27 49558,
Okay, we don't need to get into that whole debate again here. However, 
regarding your hammer analogy I have only one submission to make. If the hammer 
was really used properly, we should have certainly ended up handling gender 
more like Toki Pona (which has no grammatical gender markers at all) or Ido 
(which handles gender symmetrically). Even purely from the point of view of 
logic and efficiently, gender asymmetry is a very bad idea and I don't see any 
valid reason, other than a certain sense of fanatic attachment to a particular 
cultural notion, for retaining in it a language that hopes to become the lingua 
franca of the world. If you had a hammer, will you hit the nail head on or 
sideways? I think the design should default to neutral gender, not masculine or 
feminine speaking purely from the point of view of simplicity of learning and 
logical and efficient design.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 15:39:28 49558,
I can't understand why people are always floating Toki Pona in auxlang 
discussions.  Toki Pona makes it very difficult to discuss gender stuff at all. 
 Since I get the impression that you want to discuss gender issues, why would 
you and Jan Misali tout a language like Toki Pona?  The whole point of that 
language is to take your mind off of complex and troubling thoughts.  It's not 
meant to serve as an auxlang.
I myself, as a conlanger intending to publish a loglang in the near future, 
would never implement asymmetrical gender markings, and I would always make 
gender marking optional (roots epicene by default) including in pronouns.  As 
for why Esperanto will not change: Simply put, Esperantists consider 
reform-mongering to be the greater evil.

Vikram Sundarraman
Sun May  4 15:39:29 49558,
I understand that the design objectives of Toki Pona and Esperanto/Ido are 
different. In this context, all I am saying is that if the aim is to use 
minimum words, the logical, reasonable, and sensible solution will be to 
default to common gender, not masculine or feminine. It is incidental that Toki 
Pona does it, but for the record Finnish also does not have gender pronouns and 
it has never been a practical issue in talking about gender when required. Ido 
does it as well. Why would Espernato go against such a fundamental principle? 
In fact for a language that is designed with logic and efficiency in mind to 
have male gender, and not common gender, as default only shows how extremely 
biased the design of the language is. Even in everyday conversation, we don't 
need to always make a person's gender, it is an optional extra information like 
their skin color, height, nationality, etc. Imagine how complicated a language 
will be if you had different pronouns based on these parameters? Just because 
many languages have used grammatical gender does not make is natural, logical, 
or sensible. Anyway, my primary query in this context is why can't Esperanto 
accept Ido proposal for fixing gender asymmetry even if they did not accept 
other modifications? I understand the counterargument is it is not possible 
because of established usage and my response is that if established usage has 
reinforced a design flaw, Esperanto is not longer worth consideration for 
international auxiliary language until the design flaw is fixed by existing 
users and Esperanto community must stop pretending that their language is more 
appropriate as global lingua franca than a natural languages because (a) it has 
a fundamental design flaw of gender asymmetry and (b) established usage means 
it cannot any longer be easily fixed and the majority of the users have no 
inclination to fix it either and (c) there is no reason why we should not 
create a conlong without such fundamental issues and promote it as the 
international auxiliary language. I have nothing against those who learn and 
promote Esperanto as a hobby but the moment they say it is the best suitable 
candidate for international auxiliary language, I want to call them hypocrites 
unless they are actively doing something to fix issues like gender asymmetry.

Vikram Sundarraman
Sun May  4 15:39:31 49558,
On a positive note, I am happy that you are considering creating a conlang 
without gender asymmetry and making marking of gender optional. I guess you 
would also try to use the best features of other conlangs you have reviewed. I 
will look forward to it being published and perhaps reviewed here. We could 
further solicit reviews of it from diverse communities, make further 
modifications it to ensure it is fair to all, and promote it as a suitable 
candidate for international auxiliary language. If you really do that, I will 
be very very happy to support your initiative!

Riche the Rapper Induction SolutionsTV
Sun May  4 15:33:02 49558,
You should review the great conlang nynorsk which sucks ass and every 
Norwegian/bokmål speaker has to learn in school. It's basically like 
esperanto, but instead of European languages it's mixed with Norwegians accents 
from the 18-hundreds.
Darn you Ivar Aasen

Riche the Rapper Induction SolutionsTV
Sun May  4 15:38:53 49558,
Even though the name directly translates to "new Norwegian" it's the oldest 
form of Norwegian still in use today. And yes, i do mean that it counts as a 
conlang as it was made by the god darn Ivar Aasen
Eg skulle virkelig ønskja at Han villa døy or whatever

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:54 49558,
meh, I don't think controlled dialects are the sort of constructed language 
that this show is about

Riche the Rapper Induction SolutionsTV
Sun May  4 15:38:56 49558,
Conlang Critic Oh well. It contains a lot to critique with, but I'm not the 
conlangcritic expert. Thanks for such an.. dare I say entertaining show.

Sun May  4 15:33:05 49558,
ahem. Do interlingua

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:33 49558,
episode 17

Sun May  4 15:33:07 49558,
can you please do a video on Town Speech(aka. Urban Basanawa) you can find it 

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:11 49558,
just updated the Big List

Robert Doucet
Sun May  4 15:33:09 49558,
do dothraki

Sun May  4 15:33:10 49558,
People complaining about  how you bringing up gender is "politics"- LMAO, youve 
been living under a rock for the last 50 years mate!

Sat Sep  3 15:40:02 50557,
More like they've lived through the last five years where nearly everything has 
been accused of being "sexist".

Têt'dmétal Chèvrehumaine
Sat Sep  3 15:40:03 50557,
Nukestarmaster You're the person living under a rock they were talking about.

Sat Sep  3 15:40:05 50557,
+Tentacle Rick Do you have an argument or are you just going to make ad hominem 

Têt'dmétal Chèvrehumaine
Sat Sep  3 15:40:06 50557,
Nukestarmaster You got me dude, your argument of "just look at what's been 
happening recently", is better than my "just look what's been happening in this 
longer period of time"

Sat Sep  3 15:40:07 50557,
+Tentacle Rick If that was actually the arguments, then yes recent events are 
generally more relevant to the present day than older events (of course arguing 
about how relevant certain events are based solely based on when they happened 
is utterly retarded anyways). But that is not your argument (or the argument of 
OP), which is merely denigrating those who you disagree with; especially since 
there's no mention of what this mysterious "what's been happening in this 
longer period of time" actually is. Also "just look at what's been happening 
recently" is probably the most reductionist stating of an argument I have seen 
in my life, so reductionist that it misses the entire argument.

Têt'dmétal Chèvrehumaine
Sat Sep  3 15:40:18 50557,
Nukestarmaster What an intellectual powerhouse! Truly unmatched in philosophy 
and science by any of the greats.

Têt'dmétal Chèvrehumaine
Sat Sep  3 15:40:20 50557,
(You are arguing with tentacle Rick, an alternate version of the popular Rick 
and Morty caracther that is being fucked by a plethora of tentacles in yaoi 

Sat Sep  3 15:40:21 50557,
+Tentacle Rick Huh, more ad hominems. I guess I shouldn't have expected 
anything better.

Têt'dmétal Chèvrehumaine
Sat Sep  3 15:40:23 50557,
Nukestarmaster Your argument is that in recent years, things that aren't sexist 
have been called sexist. This doesn't change the fact that building a language 
where women are a subcategory of men/where people are assumed to be male unless 
specified otherwise is sexist.

Sat Sep  3 15:40:24 50557,
Tentacle Rick your claim is false. this practice in language construction is 
not sexist and it harms nobody.

Sat Sep  3 15:47:01 50557,
LANGUAUGE IS SEXIST LETS BAN LANGUAGE instead of accepting that language 
evolved that way and we could instead learn to not be sexists ourselves.. geez

Têt'dmétal Chèvrehumaine
Sat Sep  3 15:47:03 50557,
SomeOne Nobody wants to ban language. We were talking about the fact that 
"language has evolved that way", and this way actually happens to reflect 
underlying sexism.

Thu Jun 13 15:47:04 51061,
Maybe that's because he's using terms that are irrelevant to the field and 
mainly used by those who have a political axe to grind (i.e. nonbinary) when 
there are perfectly good preexisting terms within linguistics that suffice and 
don't open that politically-charged can of worms (i.e. epicene).

S U P E R V 8.0 - クラシックビート
Sun May  4 15:33:13 49558,
Could you do Elvish? I wouldn't care if you didn't.

Thank you?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:39:09 49558,
just updated the Big List

S U P E R V 8.0 - クラシックビート
Sun May  4 15:39:11 49558,
Hello, Senpai-kun.

Sun May  4 15:33:16 49558,
This channel is fantastic.  I found it by searching "conlang".  I'd be 
interested in an episode on Quenya or Sindarin

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:24 49558,
just updated the Big List

Sun May  4 15:33:18 49558,
Plss tell if u have Angos conlang, which i asked last time in your list

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:39 49558,
yes, Angos is on the Big List

Sun May  4 15:38:40 49558,
Conlang Critic thanks, happy to get replied in 2 hrs

Sun May  4 15:33:21 49558,
can you do a video about my conlang- Buryish

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:07 49558,
is it published somewhere?

Jade Dinosaur
Sun May  4 15:33:23 49558,
Dude, you're awesome! Ooh, do Mandalorian from Star Wars, or Lapine, the bunny 
language from Watership Down. :)

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:38:45 49558,
just updated the Big List

Jade Dinosaur
Sun May  4 15:38:47 49558,
Yay! Also, don't worry about the haters; I really appreciate your knowledge of 
linguistics, especially since I only got a C in that class. But yeah, even 
though I'm currently learning French and Indonesian (and to lesser extents 
Japanese, Gaelic and a bunch of other shit) I would love to learn a conlang, as 
it sounds fun. Just looking for the right one. Now I'm thinking about creating 
one for my own writing. Thanks for the insight! :)

D. Lawrence Miller
Sun May  4 15:33:26 49558,
could you review pegakibo?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 15:39:39 49558,
just updated the Big List

D. Lawrence Miller
Sun May  4 15:39:41 49558,
Conlang Critic thanks!

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:13 49558,
I replied to this video in a new blog post:

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 16:05:32 49558,
@Akira Enderle Thank you for notifying me. This should do the job:

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 16:05:34 49558,
Akira Enderle No problem. If you wish to comment on my reply, feel free to 
leave a message here in this comment section, for my blog's server seems to be 
down at the moment.

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 16:05:36 49558,
I would like to inform you that my blog is working again.

Aeon Maujean
Sun May  4 15:59:15 49558,
That music near the end is very distracting and nearly drowns out your speech.

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:16 49558,
You said Ido is "still extremely Eurocentric". Why do you criticize Ido for not 
being what it doesn’t strive to be? To me, it would be like criticizing 
Ithkuil for not being an auxiliary language. Or Klingon for being too difficult 
to learn.
The Délégation pour l’Adoption d’une Langue Auxiliaire Internationale 
(Delegation for the Adoption of an International Auxiliary Language) adopted 
the following declaration in 1907 (translated to English in the Complete Manual 
of the Auxiliary Language Ido, 1919, p. X):
"1. To select and promote the use of an auxiliary international language 
destined not to replace the national languages in their everyday use, but to 
serve as a means of communication between people speaking different languages.
"2. In order to fulfil usefully its intended purpose, an international 
auxiliary language ought to satisfy the following conditions: (a) It must meet 
the requirements of ordinary social life, and also those of commerce, science, 
and philosophy. (b) It must be easily acquired by people having an ordinary 
elementary education, and especially by the people of European civilization. 
(c) It must not be one of the national languages."
Now, your "ranking" of favorite auxiliary languages seems to overlook the fact 
that international auxiliary languages don’t necessarily have the same goals 
— and thus the same criteria. Pretty much all of them agree for 1 and 2c; 
however, Ido is unapologetically Eurocentric with 2b, and could you please 
explain me how Toki Pona is superior to Ido in regard to 2a?
Ido was one of the first auxiliary languages designed with scientific use in 
mind. You can read more about that in the book Scientific Babel by Michael 
Gordin (2015). Notably, many scientists complained that the Fundamento forced 
them to use the very Latin "hidrargo" instead of the international "merkurio". 
For that reason, even the very early Ido dictionaries (1908) contained words 
such as "acetileno", "akromata", "akumulatoro", "akustiko", "albumino", 
"atomo", "chankro", "glikozo" and of course… "merkuryo" (now merkurio).
Now, where is Toki Pona’s periodic table? What is "glucose" in Toki Pona?
How can you conceive Toki Pona as being a better auxiliary language than Ido if 
it cannot even compete with the level of versatility that Ido had in 1908? The 
truth is, Toki Pona was not designed to replace English in scientific 
literature. Ido was, even from the beginning.
Finally, as a side note, Ido’s "Eurocentric" system did not block words with 
non-European origin from entering the language. The word for Esperanto’s 
"ĉu" is "ka(d)", which according to the Ido-English Dictionary (Luther H. 
Dyer, 1924, p. 157) comes from… Sanskrit. Many European words also come from 
Arabic (e.g. adobo, alkaldo, alkemio, algebro, algoritmo, alkoholo, almanako, 
amalgamo, ambro, admiralo, arobo, asasino, azimuto, azuro, baldakino, baobabo, 
bergamoto, kafeo, kalibro, karafo, karato, cheko, divano, shako, jirafo, 
gitaro, hazardo, hashisho, limono, limonado, magazino, matraco, mumio, moskeo, 
nenufaro, oranjo, siropo, sukro, zero), Nahuatl (e.g. avokado, axolotlo, 
chokolado, koyoto, oceloto, tomato), Quechua (e.g. kokao, kokaino, lamao, 
pumao, quinino, vikuno), Eskimo-Aleut (e.g. anorako, igluo, kayako), Arawakan 
(e.g. kaimano, kanoo, hamako, iguano, savano, tabako), Tupi-Guaraní (e.g. 
kayeno, jaguaro, manioko, petunio, tapiokao, tapiro, tukano), Aymara (e.g. 
alpako), Cariban (e.g. kanibalo), Cherokee (e.g. sequoyo), Taino (e.g. patato), 
Sanskrit (e.g. Aryana, atolo, kandio, shakalo, junglo, mandarino, pantero, 
puncho), Hebrew (e.g. abako, amen, Babel, kerubo, edeno, jubileo, manao, mesio, 
pasko, farizeo, sabato, amonito, makadamo, sodomio), Japanese (e.g. soyo), 
Turkic (e.g. kazako, kalpak, turkezo, yogurto), etc. The fact Ido is based on 
European languages does not mean the origin of these words restrict themselves 
to European borders.
All in all, I do not see how an international auxiliary language could be easy 
to learn, easy to use and easy to understand without being at least a bit 
Eurocentric in design. Take Chinese for instance. Arbitrarily incorporating 
more Chinese words into Ido would be pointless, since Chinese itself is 
mutually unintelligible, it’s strongly tonal (which Ido is not) and it 
doesn’t use the English alphabet (which Ido uses). An Ido word based solely 
on (Mandarin) Chinese would probably not even be recognizable to a Chinese 
person. Ido would thus fare no better than Volapük — which Schleyer deformed 
especially to make the etymology harder to recognize. In the end, Schleyer’s 
clever system (that even lacked R to be easy for the Chinese!) rather made 
Europeans crave Esperanto’s vocabulary and grammar and ended up with… Idiom 
Neutral and Volapük Nulik.

Sameen Dusk
Wed Dec 30 16:07:14 51389,
yeesh, my dude. what's the tl;dr?

Todd Tolson
Fri Nov  5 16:07:15 51537,
Sameen Dusk That it’s better than Toki Pona because of the ability to express 
complex or scientific topics, and that it being Eurocentric is fine, since 
it’s goal was primarily to be a language for European use, but that even 
while it is very European, it still includes words from languages outside of 

Sameen Dusk
Fri Nov  5 16:07:16 51537,
@Todd Tolson that's a weird opinion to develop, much less defend so vehemently.

Todd Tolson
Fri Nov  5 16:07:17 51537,
Sameen Dusk The science part I understand a bit more, and a language designed 
for European use should probably be very European, but the vehemence is the odd 

Tibe That Guy
Wed Apr 28 16:07:19 51543,
Wow. We found Anthony McCarthy's son.

Karlos Tjuroukei
Sun May  4 15:59:19 49558,
I'm looking forward to seeing what you have to say about Volapük. It has 
bizarre vocabulary that provide fewer cognates than Esperanto, the grammar is a 
bit more complex from what I can see. Though despite that I find Volapük has a 
somewhat more natural feel than Esperanto say which strikes me as artificial. 
Volapük is described as being beautiful more often than I see Esperanto being 
described that way.

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:20 49558,

Sun May  4 15:59:22 49558,
Song name pls.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:05:09 49558,
all music used in Conlang Critic can be found on my channel

AlexRulesVGCP HD
Sun May  4 15:59:24 49558,

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:26 49558,
For the digraph QU, the early founders of Ido applied the same principle as 
with X (which I detailed in an earlier comment). According to the Grammaire 
complète de la Langue Internationale (L. de Beaufront, 1908, p. 7), QU is the 
combination of two pronunciations: "kw" and "kv". That way, by using QU instead 
of KW or KV, Ido neutrally relies on etymology — "aquo", for instance, comes 
from the Latin "aqua" — and leaves the freedom to the speaker to say either 
"akwo" or "akvo". Same spelling, two possible pronunciations, yet the language 
stays easy to learn, use and understand. In comparison, Esperanto’s 
Russocentric pronunciation imposes "akvo", which is far from international and 
You said that QU was adopted "so that words from Romance languages can still be 
spelled the same way". Yet here’s an interesting tidbit: the spelling of 
"bisquito" (the word for "cookie") can come from no other language but Russian 
(бискви́т), a Slavic language. Otherwise, we would have "biskuito" not 
unlike the word "cirkuito". The text above and my previous comments explain why 
that is the case.

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:27 49558,
You said, "why drop /ai/ and keep /eu/?" This question is indeed relevant in 
Ido, since the early Idists took this difficulty in consideration when adopting 
"nevrologio", "plevro", "anevrismo", etc. Since Ido often bases its 
pronunciation on Russian (and German), the "v" was preferred to the "u" (plus 
it is found in French and sometimes even Italian). That is also why we have 
"volfo" instead of "wolfo" for "wolf". In comparison, Esperanto has 
"neŭrologio", "pleŭro", "aneŭrismo", etc. That trait, however, was not 
adopted in words like "eufonio" because of the consonant cluster that "vf" 
would cause.
I would also like to point out that in Ido, the three key practical elements 
are: easy to learn, easy to use, easy to understand. That is why Ido’s 
pronunciation is not that strict. You can generally pronounce the letter I as 
/i/ or /ɪ/ or even /j/, as long as you can be understood. The only thing that 
matters is that you place the tonic accent correctly. That is why we have words 
like "boikoto". Meanwhile, Esperanto seems to suggest that there should be a 
difference between "bojkoti" and "boikoti" when in practice there is none. So 
much for "one letter, one sound"!
Taking that into consideration, I think that someone who is not familiar with 
the diphthong /eu/ can definitely pronounce the word "feudo" as /fˈeudo/ with 
or without the "u" as a consonant. With the correct accentuation, the 
pronunciation is barely different and mutual understanding is fully preserved.
Also, we have to take into consideration that words like Europa, Paris, 
Québec, København, etc.,  are considered foreign words in Ido, and keep their 
original spelling (using the extended Latin alphabet, of course) and 
pronunciation as closely as possible. The use of Latin (in e.g. Japonia, 
Suedia, etc.) is simply a neutral convention.

Louis Francisco
Sat Sep  3 16:07:02 50557,
No difference between oi and oj ? Do you pronounce in the same way foino and 
fojno, gaino and gajno. If not, is it only because the accent falls on the i?

Sun May  4 15:59:30 49558,
Could you please do an episode abour Lingwa de planeta? Source:

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:07:32 49558,
just updated the Big List

Sun May  4 16:07:33 49558,
Conlang Critic nice Video by the Way ^^

Logan Stewart
Sun May  4 15:59:32 49558,
Would you do a video on "John Wilkins language" published in "An Essay towards 
a Real Character and a Philosophical Language". it is a philosophical language 
a concept you have not talked about.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:06:56 49558,
just updated the Big List

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:34 49558,
For the formal (vu) and intimate (tu) distinction, you have to 
understand that, in order to approach the "greatest easiness to the greatest 
number of people", Ido adopted the system introduced by Idiom Neutral (a 
radical reform of Volapuk). In that system, the vocabulary is based on the 
common denominator of the six most important European languages in the early 
20th century: German, English, French, Italian, Russian and Spanish. However, 
there are two major distinctions between Idiom Neutral’s system and Ido’s 
improvement. First, Idiom Neutral also included Latin, which Ido got rid of 
because it is not a living language. Instead, Latin is used only when all of 
the six languages disagree between each other, and Latin comes as an "a 
posteriori" neutral ground — an example of that is the replacement of 
Esperanto's neutral "a priori" correlatives with words based on Latin. Second, 
not all six source languages are equal, since in order to best follow the 
principle of "greatest easiness to the greatest number of people", Ido also 
took the number of native speakers (in Europe) of each language into 
consideration. That way, it made German much more important than Spanish.
Taking that into account, the "tu/vu" dichotomy is found in German (du/Sie), 
French (tu/vous), Italian (tu/lei), Russian (ty/vy) and Spanish (tú/usted). 
Thus getting rid of "tu" would be very Anglocentric.
The "tu/vu" dichotomy is very cultural, so saying that a pronoun system is 
better than another without any objective basis is, to me, like saying that one 
culture is better than another. That is very interculturally inappropriate. The 
"tu/vu" dichotomy is so important in some French subcultures, for instance, 
that as a medical student, I can get penalized if I don’t use the right 
pronoun with people. For instance, using "vous" with a younger person and "tu" 
with an older person can truly destroy the therapeutic relation with the 
patient. It could also destroy my interprofessional relations in the future. 
Outside of French culture, here’s another example: when I suggested to get 
rid of "vu" in an Ido group on Facebook, I was greeted with verbal violence 
from a Japanese Idist. You don’t play with that sort of thing.
I am one of those who (strongly) think that the problem is not the language but 
the people who use it. When you exchange with someone from another culture and 
language, you should not expect a single language to be the perfect "cultural 
middleman". One must also learn about the other’s culture, and most 
importantly, be receptive. When meeting an English speaker in Ido, I would tend 
to use "vu". On the other hand, when I meet a Swede, I would tend to directly 
use "tu". Finally, with a French speaker I would always start with "vu", then 
maybe ask after a while if "tu" is preferable. If I meet someone whose customs 
are unknown to me, I don’t worry: I use "vu", since that is what my own 
culture is used to, and I expect the other to be accepting and politely correct 
me if I am wrong. What some see as useless ballast in Ido, I see it as cultural 
flexibility: the "tu/vu" dichotomy helps Ido be as little a cultural middleman 
as possible between two (European) nations. In other words, it maximizes direct 
communication. However, this flexibility must be welcomed without pedantry from 
both parties.
If I were a native English speaker like you, and since you seem uncomfortable 
with the idea of adapting to the other language’s "tu/vu" custom, I suggest 
you to always start with "vu" when interacting in Ido, then switch to "tu" if 
you notice the addressee feels offended or uncomfortable.
If you are interested in the topic of cultural adaptation, I suggest you to 
read about Young Yung Kim's integrative communication theory.

Wario Craft
Sun May  4 15:59:36 49558,
1st off German is the 11th most spoken language and second off I don't see how 
removing /eu/ makes Ido's Phonology compatible with German. Unless you mean its 
closest to German which still seems weird. Its vocabulary in my opinion is even 
worse although I like that the mal- suffix is gone. I hate the fact that it's 
even more unbalanced than Esperanto for lexicon

Alex Robson
Sun May  4 16:04:56 49558,
The phonology of Ido minus eu is compatible with German if you count the rhotic 
as either a flap or a trill, which is realistically acceptable.

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:38 49558,
You said "the accusative case is indicated through word order (but it can be 
marked if you want to)". That is a common misconception about Ido. There is a 
clear rule about that: the accusative case is marked (with -n) only when the 
direct object comes before the subject. That way, we can equally say 
"L’arboron me hakas", "L’arboron hakas me", "Hakas l’arboron me", "Me 
hakas l’arboro", "Me l’arboro hakas" or "Hakas me l’arboro". This is 
useful when people (e.g. I, who am a French speaker) don’t always use the 
S-V-O order in their mother tongue. Also, it is useful for sentences built with 
relative pronouns, for instance "La filmo, quaN me spektas, esas tre populara" 
(The movie that I watch is very popular).
Although the -N is usually not applied to copular verbs, it can be useful in 
Ido when confusion may arise: "Quon divenas aquo pos varmigo? Vaporo" (What 
does water become after it is heated? Steam) differs from "Quo divenas aquo pos 
varmigo? Glacio" (What becomes water after it is heated? Ice).
If you want to read lots of criticism about Ido (and Esperanto) and reform 
proposals of Ido, I invite you to read the magazine Progreso, in publication 
since 1908, that explains very well (in thousands of pages from diverse 
authors) how today’s Ido came to be. Ido, like the blueprint of a lightbulb, 
is not set in stone, and is continuously perfectible. If you are interested in 
changing anything about Ido, I invite you to learn the language and expose the 
dramatic flaws of our language in an argumentative essay (written in Ido, of 
course). That would be much more effective than pointing out details, like in a 
bulleted list, in an English-language video…

Zion J
Sat Feb 14 16:05:43 51305,
brah how did you get two top comments when the "Read More" button is the 
detonate button on a word bomb for both? srsly, keep it to 6 lines. If you're 
writing a second paragraph, something's gone wrong. These are comments after 
all. Quick comments on the video, not a stinkin' essay.

Gilles-Philippe Morin
Sun May  4 15:59:40 49558,
The reason why X was adopted was to combine the sounds "kz" and "ks" (and the 
French and Polish "gz", although missing in Esperanto AFAIK) into a single 
letter that can be freely pronounced in either of the three ways. That way, 
"ekzameno" and "ksilofono" are spelt "exameno"  and "xilofono" in Ido, and can 
keep the original pronunciation or be pronounced "eksameno" and "kzilofono" or 
"egzameno" and "gzilofono". It is a simplification, since notably French (sorry 
for mentioning French, I know some Esperantists are allergic to it but it’s 
my native tongue) pronounces these Xs like GZ, and apparently English simply 
pronounces them like Z. It’s also more appropriate in a historical sense, 
since the word "ekzameno" comes from Latin "exāmen", in which the X is 
pronounced like KS, not KZ, in Classical Latin. This wide range of 
possibilities on how to pronounce the letter X shows that Esperanto’s 
orthography (and thus imposed pronunciation) is very Russocentric — that’s 
not even Polish in nature, since the word for "ekzameno" in Polish is… 
"egzamin"! Such a non-international trait is contrary to Ido’s core 
principle: "The best international language is that which offers the greatest 
easiness to the greatest number of people." Letting everyone pronounce X in the 
way they do in their natural language (as long as it doesn’t sound completely 
different, e.g. like SH) is easier to learn and apply than imposing the 
pronunciation from a single language.

Blackpink-agent Daniel
Sun May  4 15:59:42 49558,
How about Pegakibo? I've just found that conlang for only a few minutes ago and 
I already love it! The writing system was very easy! Only 11 letters and I 
learnt them immediately. I didn't even need to look at the chart! I just looked 
at the texts written in pegakibo immediately and somehow managed to follow by! 

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:06:59 49558,
just updated the Big List.

Zackary Midddleton
Sun May  4 15:59:44 49558,
conlang critic you should do furbish

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:05:39 49558,
just updated the Big List

Sun May  4 15:59:47 49558,
Can you add Rikchik ( to the 
big list?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:05:18 49558,
just updated the Big List

Sun May  4 16:05:20 49558,
Rikchik might be a difficult conlang to discuss in this format.  However, I do 
not know how he plans to do signed languages.

Sylvain Auclair
Sun May  4 15:59:49 49558,
Suggestions of conlangs to be reviewed: sambahsa-mundialect, uropi, lingwa de 
planeta, lingua franca nova, afrihili (never could find a lot of info on this 
one). If you read Esperanto, you can read my reviews (   issues 99 and up).

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:07:05 49558,
just updated the Big List

george aka Angrycheese
Sun May  4 15:59:51 49558,
By this point it becomes obvious that this guy knows fucking nothing about 
languages, be it conlangs or natural languages. Without any logic, the 
"universality" argument is used when referencing the grammar, ignoring the fact 
that when esperanto was created, most of the countries with "most commonly 
spoken languages" were barely known (plus, they are not commonly spoken because 
they are universal, they simply have a large number of people speaking them, 
meaning creating a conlang that pleases everyone is impossible). But then, when 
adressing the male-female distinction, he completely ignores the aforementioned 
universality or that most universally spoken (especially european) languages 
work like this. Striving to achieve nothing seems to be the primary motivator 
here, hence why toki pona (aka the baby lang) is his favorite. What a joke.

george aka Angrycheese
Sun May  4 16:07:25 49558,
It reminds me of a feminist parody site joke article that argued that "she" 
should come before "he", because if "he" comes first, then, clearly, evil men 
are behind this all.

Sun May  4 16:07:27 49558,
I'm totally pulling this out of my ass, but I'm pretty sure European people in 
the late 19th / early 20th century very much knew about those commonly spoken 
lanaguages like Chinese, Hindi, Arabic, Bengali, Japanese, Punjabi etc. Be it 
from colonies, war, trade, or christian missions.  Some of them, by the way, 
have very little gender distinction, like Chinese, Bengali, and Japanese.
There's absolutely no mistake calling Esperanto and Ido eurocentric auxlangs.

Sun May  4 16:20:43 49558,
I don't think that it's a problem that it is Eurocentric.  If you include words 
that are too different, then it would just make it harder for everyone.  
Also, women as a type of man (grammatically) isn't really a problem, either, I 
think, because so many European languages do it (yes in a perfectly logical 
world, perhaps it doesn't make sense).  Having women as a type of man in a 
language is not necessarily sexist.  Really, you can interpret that fact 
however you want.  For example, you could say that it is pro-women, because it 
makes them a distinctive group and so more special, or you could say that it is 
against women, because it makes them seem like a weird version of human that 
doesn't coexist properly with the rest of the population.

Sun May  4 16:28:44 49558,
No, that's not true.  There are many varieties of conlangs and conlangers, just 
as it is the case with many other forms of hobbies or art.  Not all conlangs 
need to be exceedingly logical.

Sander Suverkropp
Sun May  4 16:28:46 49558,
Not all conlangs no, but for auxiliary languages, I would say it is reasonable 
to keep them to this standard.

Sun May  4 16:28:47 49558,

Sun May  4 16:28:49 49558,
Yes, it is much more understandable to apply the concepts of logic to auxlangs 
and loglangs, especially.  By necessity, I think, Lojban would be the most 
logical language, although its practical functionality seems abysmal.

Sun May  4 16:20:57 49558,
reviwe arcaicam esperantom, it's better than esperanto

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:28:37 49558,
just updated the Big List

Mike S.
Sun May  4 16:21:00 49558,
I know little about Ido, but I am surprised you didn't mention the v/w 
distinction.  That is something virtually absent in Esperanto.

A Duck
Sun May  4 16:21:01 49558,
I know it would be very difficult, but would it be possible to critique Gestuno?

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:28:01 49558,
just updated the Big List.

Paulo Victor de Jesus Moraes
Sun May  4 16:21:04 49558,
Is there even gonna be any language you like more than toki pona?

Sat Sep  3 16:29:36 50557,
Paulo Victor de Jesus Moraes No

Burke Tinsley
Sat Sep  3 16:29:37 50557,
Toki pona is his favorite language!

Wed Sep 12 16:29:39 50891,
Burke Tinsley even though it's the worst possible language for an interlang

Tibe That Guy
Wed Sep 12 16:29:41 50891,
@NeptuneF Jesus, it's his own damn opinion.

Wed Sep 12 16:29:42 50891,
@Tibe That Guy lol

Paulo Victor de Jesus Moraes
Sun May  4 16:21:06 49558,
4:37 doesn´t that happen in a lot of languages?

Sun May  4 16:21:08 49558,
Oh yeah, I've got a real 

Sun May  4 16:21:09 49558,
Great video!

Sun May  4 16:21:11 49558,
i can definitely see this becoming a youtube red series

Sun May  4 16:28:32 49558,
like noooooooooo

Sun May  4 16:28:34 49558,
i dont mean as in paying, i just see it as having a similar format

Sun May  4 16:21:13 49558,
cool and good

ra sak
Sun May  4 16:21:15 49558,
Don't put the music so loud! Please, i almost can't understand your voice

Sun May  4 16:21:17 49558,

Sun May  4 16:21:19 49558,
"binary gender",
>implying there are more than two genders
lmao go back to tumblr

Sun May  4 16:31:05 49558,
BladderMuffin wow you're so cool being all conservative and all. Lmao "read a 
biology textbook" right? Let's go ahead and ignore literally ALL of the 
identity psychology advances made in the past century!

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:31:06 49558,
I literally link to my tumblr in this video

Sun May  4 16:31:07 49558,
Joseph Connell All of those advances were made in the past decade. You could 
have just said past decade instead of past century. 
Also: that's a nice strawman you've built!
BladderMuffin Could you at least try to see the other perspective instead of 
blindly ignoring everything he said? He said that there is a pronoun that can 
be used without stating gender. That's all. He could have just as easily been 
trying to distinguish from Biological Gender^TM and grammatical gender.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:31:09 49558,
I specifically said "binary gender" because of nonbinary people. I was trying 
to imply that there are more than two genders, like BladderMuffin said.

Sun May  4 16:31:10 49558,
ahahaha the regressive left strikes again! throwing around 'conservative' left 
and right smh.. also lmao 'identity psychology' what's next, people with autism 
aren't sick they're just different amirite? also shoutout to HBM for banning 
people with perfectly fine opinions on a fucking conlang server! stop bringing 
your sjw nonsense into your videos, for God's sake! your videos are alrite but 
this is just plain stupid. Khuda Hafiz , jazik Allah khair.

Sun May  4 16:31:11 49558,
Yeah, I know. It's just best to start with the glaring holes in an argument 
before going after the specific philosophy.

Sun May  4 16:31:12 49558,
BladderMuffin Let me get this straight; you take issue when Conlang Critic 
brings up his personal ideology in his videos and want him to stop; but when he 
takes issue with your personal ideology and wants you to stop on the Discord 
server, it's wrong to censor opinions.

Sun May  4 16:31:14 49558,
Seiban 1. yes, because conlanging has absolutely NOTHING to do with this gender 
identity nonsense.
2. there was a debate in the server and I voiced my opinion. what's wrong with 

Sun May  4 16:31:15 49558,
conlanging has nothing to do with gender identity? i mean fuck, even by your 
own standards that describe other genders as "made up" are the fuckin 
languages so who gives a shit. and on top pof that, languages, especially 
interlangs, are descriptive not prescriptive. that is to say, if a significant 
amount of people believe they are nonbinary, whether you agree with the 
biological basis for it or not, we still need words to describe and refer to 
these people

Sun May  4 16:31:16 49558,
BladderMuffin There was nothing wrong with what you did. I'm just saying that 
Conlang Critic and you are both hypocrites.

Sun May  4 16:37:41 49558,
needlessnoise I can agree with that.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 16:37:42 49558,
I like CC's show, but the fact that he uses ideological jargon, including 
neologisms, rather than standard linguistic terms in this particular area makes 
his politics more than obvious. He's entitled to his opinion of course, and 
maybe he likes the controversy he gets from that; I don't know. Anyway, the 
less loaded term in linguistics for a form that leaves gender unspecified is 
"epicene". No one refers to "binary gender" when discussing language, it's 
simply "gender" Also, linguistic forms like pronouns and suffixes don't -- dear 
God -- "assign a gender" to an entity. They refer to an entity by means of 
gender, which in natlangs may or may not match the natural gender of the thing 
-- see Spanish, German, etc. as examples. Gender is just a tool for language 
speakers to refer to things and build in redundancy (e.g. noun-adj concord) 
into the speech stream. Of course, in a logical language, I totally agree with 
CC that the unmarked form should be epicene, and the genders should be treated 
symmetrically. But, Jiminy Cricket, no one except primarily for monoglot 
English speakers with a certain political axe to grind would regard grammatical 
gender as a big ideological issue. The issue is logic and efficiency!

Sun May  4 16:37:44 49558,
I have a question. Is any of this discussion actually affecting opinion here, 
or is it just bullshitting for bullshit's Japanese alcoholic beverage?

Mike S.
Sun May  4 16:37:45 49558,
The discussion may well be changing opinions among neutral observers, if not 
among the active participants.

Sun May  4 16:37:46 49558,
That is a good point.

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 16:37:47 49558,
Are you so insecure with your political opinions that you must point it out 
every time that CC criticizes the language from a perspective that you do not 
agree with? Go back to 4chan.

Sun May  4 16:37:49 49558,
Alex Hayes yeah, and the 'perspective' from which he criticizes conlangs  is 
complete bullshit and irrelevant.
also, nice try, but I'm not a 4channer ;)

Alex Hayes
Sun May  4 16:37:50 49558,
Yeah, because a grammatical gender system is completely unrelated to gender, 
and of course all the lefties have bullshit perspectives, our opinions are 
completely wrong. Look, I don't care that you think that some of my friends 
don't exist, that's fine, political opinion is a thing, but can't you give the 
other viewers the same courtesy? You aren't the only person in the universe 
with beliefs, you're going to disagree with people.
Also, was my assumption that you are from 4chan any worse than you assuming 
that anybody who accepts non-binary gender is automatically from Tumblr? 
Granted, he has a link to his Tumblr in the description, but it's not an 
inherently left-wing blog; it's just for conlanging.
P.S. People with autism aren't sick, they really are just neurologically 
different. Why are you parodying yourself?

Sat Sep  3 16:37:51 50557,
"Binary" means ðere is no "two", ðere is only 0 or 1.

Sat Sep  3 16:37:53 50557,
"Binary" means ðere is no "two", ðere is only "1" ϗ "0".
BTW... ðere is no spoon, eiðer.

Sat Sep  3 16:37:54 50557,
Conlang Critic although you gotta admit, (at least I think) people weren't non 
binary. It wasn't a thing when Esperanto was made so its less of an improvement 
and more of an add on to suit the times

Sat Sep  3 16:37:55 50557,
BladderMuffin Yeah, because more than teo genders has NEVER developed outside 
of Tumblr. I bet there are NO cultures with 3, 4 or even 5 genders! Ridiculous 
right? And why would someone ever want to speak without identifying their 
gender? Obviously language must show it you're a guy or girl or the very fabric 
of reality will unravel!

Nash Feiler
Sat Sep  3 16:37:57 50557,
Almost all educated scientists confirm gender is on a spectrum.  Mind your own 
business and go back to whining about your bad quesadilla on Yelp.

Josiah Nethery
Sat Sep  3 16:37:58 50557,
M. Feiler everything is on a spectrum. It's still natural and simple to define 
things based on the poles and center of said spectrum. We can then modify these 
words for specificity. Adding 100 different words for levels of light instead 
of "light" and "dark" or 1000 different words for the shades of gray between 
black and white is useless and overly specific. Placement on a spectrum between 
masculine and feminine isn't quantifiable. It is sufficient to say "he", "she", 
"them" and "it". "Non-binary" as an identity is incredibly non-specific, not 
useful, and it opens a giant can of politically loaded words, as often there's 
no clear definition on what people mean when they say that they are 
"non-binary". Ultimately, it boils down to the PHILOSOPHY that females and 
males are the same, and that no tangible distinction can or should be made 
between the two. Passing this off as "science" isn't accurate. 
The negative reaction to it stems from the commonly-held fear that people's 
speech is going to be dictated based off of fringe philosophy. If a biological 
woman demands to be called a man, it creates uncomfortable and confusing 
ambiguity in what has been considered a simple concept for thousands of years. 
It is demanding that people abandon their culture, understanding, and language 
to appease the philosophy of a small percentage of people. 
So, sorry, I know you mean well here, but you can't radically change language 
and expect everyone to adopt it overnight. You can call it "science" until 
you're blue in the face (it's philosophy), but 99.9% of the world understands 
men and women to be 2 separate things. On a spectrum, sure, but the binary 
classification is reflective of humanity's understanding of reality. As long as 
we remain creatures that reproduce, we will continue to recognize the 
distinction between male and female. And our language will reflect that 

Sat Sep  3 16:37:59 50557,
Josiah Nethery wow... You're the most mature/smart man/woman I've seen in these 
comments... Well said. Well said.

Sat Sep  3 16:38:01 50557,
M. Feiler they would be crucified by an angry mob if they dared to speak 
against the social justice groupthink of academia.

Sun May  4 16:21:22 49558,
EDIT: I'm curious, what words should one start with once they reach the 
vocabulary stage of conlanging? I'm trying to create a language for my novel, 
but I'm running into issues finding a good list of words to begin with that 
would allow for basic everyday speech. Y'know what I mean?

Eita Tsukino
Sun May  4 16:28:56 49558, the swadesh list 
is good for some real basics and this thread has a nice list 
to get started
After that, I'd recommend just doing some translations of things so you can get 
a feel for what you're still missing.

Sun May  4 16:28:57 49558,
It depends. The people who speak your language, how did their culture evolve 
and what does their environment look like?

Sun May  4 16:28:58 49558,
I've got the swadesh down, I'll check the other list out too. Thanks guys.

Insert Channel Name
Sun May  4 16:21:24 49558,
2:16 I get why you didn't say English has a 'ts', but it is in words like iTSy 
biTSy spider. It's not that common and some people have a problem pronouncing 
it, I just wanted to say that.

Sun May  4 16:30:34 49558,
Pegaliko the sequence /t/ + /s/ is allowed in some positions in English but 
there is no affirmative phoneme /ts/. Is there a difference? Kinda.

Sun May  4 16:30:36 49558,
Pegaliko *affricative

Sun May  4 16:30:37 49558,
You can't start a word with /ts/ in English, while I'm guessing you can in Ido 
which is why he's trying to say.

Sage Sweeney
Sun May  4 16:30:39 49558,

Sun May  4 16:30:40 49558,
Pegaliko loanword from Japanese, which does have a /ts/ phoneme. The 
pronunciation in English is approximated with /s/

Sun May  4 16:30:41 49558,

Insert Channel Name
Sun May  4 16:30:42 49558,
Marsh Thanks I wasn't fully clear on the difference between them being an 
affricate and being in the same position.

Ashtăr Balynestjăr
Sun May  4 16:30:43 49558,
In fact, Polish distinguishes between affricates and stop-fricative sequences: 
czysta /t͡ʃɨsta/ "clean (feminine)" vs. trzysta /t.ʃɨsta/ "three hundred".

Strike Ecozzocn
Sat Sep  3 16:30:45 50557,
We don’t distinguish /ts/ and  /t͡s/ but in words like dates, it can be 
pronounced /dɛɪt͡s/ or /dɛɪts/

Soviet Loli
Thu Jun 13 16:30:46 51061,
@Ashtăr Balynestjăr How?

Ashtăr Balynestjăr
Thu Jun 13 16:36:11 51061,
@Soviet Loli We don’t have any single-word examples in English, but it does 
occur across multiple words. Think about the difference between “courtship” 
and “core chip”, or “ratchet“ and “rat shit”.

Yevhenia Doskach
Thu Feb 10 16:36:12 51138,
@Marsh In BE it is pronounced /tsuːˈnɑː.mi/. So I guess, you're speaking on 
behalf of AE.

Sun May  4 16:21:26 49558,
The reason natural languages (at least those of Indo-European descend) have the 
masculine as the standard has nothing to do with sexism. The masculine used to 
be just an animate, and later on a suffix could be added to these words to make 
them feminine. This created a distinction between general animate and feminine 
animate. This shifted to a difference between masculine and feminine, with some 
archaic uses of the masculine as just an animate (general he in English, for 
example). So, it’s an archaism of the animate function of the masculine, not 
a view as women as a kind of man.
As for origin of that suffix, of which the form was -h2, it might have been a 
collective. I don’t know why such a semantic shift would have taken place, or 
what this means for how they saw women back then, but it might not have been 
derogatory. I don’t know if this is possible with a collective, but with a 
plural it is possible to mark respect in some languages, like vous in French. 
If the same is possible for a collective, it might have been somewhat similar, 
though, how exactly, I don’t know. Just claiming sexism feels like a bit of a 
cop-out to me.
Also, I think people might just be tired of hearing about sexism everywhere 
they go, so they don't appreciate it when it pops up again, unexpectedly. But, 
it is your show, so you may include it if you want, of course. Just be aware 
some might not like it.

Mike S.
Sun May  4 16:29:59 49558,
Jollonk, I agree with your points.  As far as -h2, my own hypothesis is that 
the two uses (fem. sing. & neut. collective) originated from two originally 
separate suffixes that fell together due to phonological attrition (Like the 
separate origins of English -s plural, -'s possessive, -s 3p sing verb 
endings).  I can't think of good way that -h2 could have developed two rather 
distinct meanings otherwise.

The Major
Sun May  4 16:30:00 49558,
Actually many of them did have 3 grammatical genders; Neuter, Masculine and 
Masculine Neuter merged, and the rest is history. There are a few remnants of 
this in some of the European languages. It's not that the masculine is standard 
it's dropped, and neuter is the one used, and then a female modifier. Man for 
instance just mean human being, it's grammatically neuter because it never was 
anything else, woman has the wo prefix, which probably was another root word in 
the past meaning woman. Just like -inna in Swedish turns a neuter into 
feminine, it's root is kvinna, meaning adult female. There is a second suffix 
which does the same thing -(er)ska which I don't know the root word of, it's 
technically a stemchanging suffix. Seeing as the neuter is -are compared to the 
old -ir for masculine.

Sat Sep  3 16:30:01 50557,
+The Major you make very good points, however, we in German have a neuter, and 
addressing adult people in it feels just WRONG - you don't want a Neutrum, but 
an Utrum (I had to learn the word, too).
Ne--utrum means "none of both" in latin, it seems - Utrum "any of both".
Many Esperantists also feel uncomfortable using "ĝi" as utric pronoun; in 
1967, Manuel Halvelik just dropped the ĉapitelo: gi (or Arxaika Esperanto: 
Please: This does NOT the hell mean a ĉapitelo diminished respect for a word 
(as feminine pronoun is "ŝi"); it's just that ne-uter is ĝi and utric is gi. 
Therefore, female suffix is "-in-" and male "-iĉ-", with ĉapitelo.
While German took between middle xy GErman and modern xy German a word for 
"human" ("Mensch/Minsch) that differed from "male" (Mann), there are still many 
idioms where "Mann" includes ladies ("am Mann haben", "bemannen", 
English (and East German, too) just used the "generic masculine" as Utrum: "the 
minister of education, Mrs Margot Honnecker".
Now the "fun fact": since the 1990s, all official communication has to be 
"inclusive": "Dear Frauinnen und Frauen, Mitgliederinnen und Mitglieder, 
Studierendinnen und Studierende". SINCE THEN, women in 
mathematics/informatics/natural sciences/technics FELL - "being inclusive" 
meant, here, that people STARTED to think about gender and MADE MINT "male" and 
pedagogics/social sciences/philosophy "female", while the USA with their 
"generic masculine" have about 50% of female MINT bachelors. It gets even worse 
considering the majority of female MINT professionals/students is from Eastern 
Germany where "Gendering" still hasn't established itself.
The ONLY way to "de-gender" professions (and thereby make females take them up) 
seems to be radical utric use; if you don't have an utrum, radically avoiding 
feminine movation and only speak in generalised masculine - so masculine Genus 
(grammatical) loses its meaning "male Sexus" (again).
Also to take into consideration, here +Bon Bon might be able to add something: 
In Slavonic languages, female endings are even in Names - Michail Gorbatschow 
and Raissa Gorbatschowa. Slavonic women can sweep the floor with West-German 
ones. In Eatern Europe (including CIS and East Germany), the economy needed  
the female work force, so participation in the Workforce seems to be WAY 
stronger than language in "making females equal"; however, I still hold NOT 
using an Utrum makes those whose gender is not seen as "typical" in a 
profession (male kindergardners, eg) "unnormal".

sofias. orange
Sat Sep  3 16:30:03 50557,
> nothing to do with sexism
> a suffix could be added to these words to make them feminine
also sexism does not depend on whether it's always been that way or has 
changed. what matters is the social mechanisms it enables or enforces in the 
moment that it is used.

Sat Sep  3 16:30:04 50557,
+sofias. orange and, pray tell, what ARE ðose "mechanisms", empirically 
(statistically) proven by evidence?
In medieval Europe, ðere was nobility ϗ agriculture, boþ seeing common males 
ϗ lifestock males as workforce, females as "breeding stock" to be treasured - 
it is anecdotal, but still ðere: In Chinese characters, "female" is a distinct 
sign, "male" is combined by "Force" in ðe "Field". For "real" patriarchy, 
commoners ϗ non-citizens were but a numberto till fields, build structures, 
wage wars or - Russian Empire 19þ century - gamble away. 
And yes, ðis is problematic even today: It is called ðe "disposable 
dude"-meme in ðat "women and children" are to be protected, males are 
replacable and disposable - see, eg, how few women even today serve in armed 
forces or police, even hiȝ-risk work environments - which society tends to 
fill wiþ disposable males. Also, custody strifes are even today heavily biased 
against faðers (faðer/moðer anoðer example for non-movated male/female 
roles). Yesterday, ðere was ðe "day against violence against women" because 
one in þree has an experience wiþ violence - which is tragic, however, one in 
TWO males experience violence, but ðis is deemed "normal" (even TRY to 
organise a gender-less "day against violence" - nice to have got to read you).
In Indo-Germanic languages, you see movated "affixed" female forms (priestess, 
engineeress...), but also (un-movated) "genuine female" terms (nurse, queen... 
German "Zofe", "Amme" (midwive (Hebamme), nursing maid). Where you find ðose 
terms, male and female terms are totally distinct (monk/nun). Esperanto 
detractors even find it obscene "genuine female" words in Esperanto can be used 
for males, too (fraulo/frauliĉo: bachelor, from German "Fräulein"; 
damo/damiĉo "noble" "esteemed sir" from French dame, male sieur). For ðis 
reason, Ludwig Samenhof coming from a Yiddish/Polish/German/Russian/French 
background used a female affix, because all ðose languages HAVE one. De 
Beaufront took a male affix, too, for symmetry purposes.
Neiðer Samenhof nor de Beaufront had "sexist" motivations; and see, eg, 
English who has made ðe "generalised masculine genus" an "utrum" 
(gender-less), ðe F.R.Germany who puts female "-in" in EVERYÞING 
(Mitglied/Mitgliederin, Studierender/Studierende), and France and Slavonic 
countries who just add some "-e" or "-a" here and ðere and have many 
"generalised/utric masculine genera" oðerwise, and only ðe fanatic 
Dworkinists want to change it; stated reason in all ÞREE cases: "feminism". 
Now, we have a historic precedence here: ðe FRG used movation (which is 
criticised as "autrui" in French, "oðering" in English), ðe GDR generalised 
masculine like English (FRG: Mrs engineeress Müller; GDR: Mrs engineer 
Müller). Statistics show clearly ðat in ðe Western FRG, women in STEM become 
rarer and rarer while males in Humanity sciences leave ðe field, also. Former 
GDR even today, and English-speaking countries have much hiȝer "female 
STEM/male Humanity sciences" rates.
So TODAY, we can say ðat Giismo (gi, li, ŝi, ĝi for utric he or she, he, 
she, it) and Iĉismo are correct because of ðe data we have 1950-1990 and 
1990-now in boþ Germanies; Esperanto and Ido were made 1860 and 1910.
Sexism is involved if someþing is used or made in a sexist motivation. 
Historically, ðere were "castes" "common (disposable male) human" ("man"), 
"common female human" ("woman", yes, ENGLISH: wo-man), "noble male human" 
("lord") and "noble female human" ("lady"); sexism and "patriarchy" here are 
not "males vs females", but 1% of males vs ðe rest of society; and ENGLAND 
even disposed of a king qwho did not fulfill his gender-role by pouring molten 
lead into his rectum - ðe "King" being ðe top-most "patriarch" in a 
patriarchal society. "Reverse sexism" is as bull-crappy as "capitalism is ðe 
exploitation of one human by ðe oðer, socialism is ðe reverse ðereof".
Find a worðy bullying-field to battle "sexism";  it may be easy to "strike 
down" on ðe Esperanto and Ido communities, but REAL society-changing sexism to 
fiȝt is to be found elsewhere. But ðat's no longer striking down, but an 
uphill battle.

Sat Sep  3 16:30:06 50557,
+DingoSaar Good points all around, but you are kind of hard to read. What do 
you have against "th"?

Epic Stimulus
Sat Sep  3 16:30:07 50557,
Not Greek though

Sat Sep  3 16:30:08 50557,
Nukestarmaster he's probably typing on an icelandic keyboard or has some custom 
preset for a personal conlang. either that or he's trying to lead the change of 
english spelling by using the IPA to write in english.

Heads Full Of Eyeballs
Sat Sep  3 16:30:09 50557,
"I don’t know why such a semantic shift would have taken place, or what this 
means for how they saw women back then, but it might not have been derogatory."
The way I've generally seen it explained is that Indo-European women were 
viewed collectively, as either a group of women or part of the family-group. We 
have a bunch of examples of that sort of semantic shift from later IE 
languages. The Romanian word for "woman", femeie, derives from Latin familia 
"family, household", for example. The German word "Frauenzimmer" (lit. "women's 
room") is now a derogatory term for a woman, singular. 
In many IE cultures you didn't address women by name, either -- in ancient 
Greek we generally see men addressed by name, while women just get "o gune!", 
"o woman!". And Roman women were typically just referred to by their husband's 
gentile name.
All this is definitely reflective of a sexist ancestral culture, where men are 
individuated but women are generic and interchangeable/defined by their 
attachment to a man. It's not "derogatory" in the sense that it actively seeks 
to insult women, it just reflects a view of women that's morally insulting.

Carl Avlund
Sun May  4 16:21:29 49558,
Great episode! I couldn't agree more with you regarding the flaws of Esperanto 
and Ido's phonemes. I did sort of like Esperanto's orthography better. I mean, 
I think it's absolutely idiotic to use ‹ĥ› for /x/ and ‹ŭ› for /w/, 
but I think it's better to make a diacritical system than to use digraphs. 
Whenever I see a conlang use ‹sh› for /ʃ/, I cringe in agony... In fact, 
if Esperanto would've just used *‹ẑ› instead of ‹ĵ› for /ʒ/, I 
would've been absolutely fine with it.
Oh, and then Zamenhoff should've turned those f*cking circumflexes upside 
down!!! Seriously, ‹ˆ› is so f*cking ugly, like, why would he do that...
Anyway, awesome vid'!

Sun May  4 16:21:30 49558,
If you wanna put music in the video, turn the music down, or turn your voice 
track up.

Sun May  4 16:21:32 49558,
Just a question: What does it take for a conlang to be reviewed by you?
Does it have to be sufficiently known? Does it just have to be reasonable? etc.

Martin Claaassen
Sun May  4 16:28:23 49558,
ads13000 he needs to be able to see the conlang  and I guess it needs to be 
fleshed out

Sun May  4 16:28:25 49558,
On top of it needing to be available for him to research somewhere (preferably 
somewhere on the internet), viewers request the conlang they want reviewed, and 
he adds it to a list. The order in which he reviews them is based on how many 
people request the video, and how many items he already had on the list.

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:28:26 49558,
aw dang I was gonna answer this question but Da best Rock and 109Rage beat me 
to it

Hand Sanitizer Attack
Sun May  4 16:21:34 49558,
The music near the end was way too loud. Also, I love this series, but I find 
it hard to focus on your voice when you talk that fast and have a pretty bad 

Sun May  4 16:29:25 49558,
Lucky for us, he has subtitles you can turn on.

Sat Sep  3 16:29:27 50557,
I prefer the older episodes without music.  Please turn the music down or off.  
Thank you.

Jordan Getulio
Sun May  4 16:45:09 49558,
The music was a bit loud near the end, I could barely hear what you were 
saying, but otherwise a good review, keep up the good work!

Sat Sep  3 16:50:30 50557,
Jordan Getulio oh boy this comment sounds like I would comment one year ago how 

Anteri Savukoski
Sat Feb 14 16:50:32 51305,
@Ptaku93 and this comment is something i would comment 1 year ago as well...

Keith Pickett
Sun May  4 16:45:11 49558,
why is it only in 360p ?

Thom Hopgood
Sun May  4 16:45:13 49558,
Notification squad!

Some Girl
Sun May  4 16:45:15 49558,
Even though I don't always agree with your opinions, I love your content and 
respect your obvious linguistics experience (be it formal or informal) and 
effort in making these videos! :)

Conlang Critic
Sun May  4 16:50:56 49558,
thanks Bill!

jcbk ninety
Sun May  4 16:45:17 49558,
I guest V0tgil is on the bottom forever.

Alexander Ferguson
Sun May  4 16:50:47 49558,
jcbk ninety until a worse auxlang comes along.

jcbk ninety
Sun May  4 16:50:48 49558,

Chase B
Sun May  4 16:50:49 49558,
Until material is available on Megdevi, David Peterson's personal language from 
before he knew anything about linguistics

jcbk ninety
Sun May  4 16:50:51 49558,

Epic Stimulus
Sat Sep  3 16:50:52 50557,

Will Tannery
Sun May  4 16:45:20 49558,
Whoah I'm early

Celt of Canaan Esurix
Sun May  4 16:45:22 49558,
Might want to turn the music a tad bit down, I had difficulty hearing. Also 
first comment!

Sun May  4 16:50:13 49558,
You may have been the first comment, but I can't tell for sure because you 
edited the comment, making it go further up in the comment stream.

The Ancient World
Sun May  4 16:45:24 49558,
owo what's this?

Nic Austin
Sun May  4 16:45:26 49558,
Hey hbmaster it's me jan meka